Rehousing issue for Grenfell Towers survivors

So Annie wanting to grab property is wrong you are therefore in favour of rich people buying houses, with no intention of living in them, purely so that they can make huge profits at some time in the future. Never mind that they will not pay a proper rate of council tax, never mind that they will make housing unaffordable to essential service providers, never mind that there will be areas of our capital city that will be dead zones with all the knock on effects for local businesses, never mind that there are families living in B&B accommodation or living on the streets. You have said you have compassion, but only it seems for rich people with property investments.

The man who turned down the flat said that all his family wanted was their dignity.

You believe the Daily Mail, do you, Annie?
They turned it down because it was too small, and too far away from her school.

Kensington has the money to afford to house all these people for now until they can find a more permanent solution for Grenfell.
They are the richest borough in the country.
158 families. Not the whole population of London.

Are you saying that it was okay for Kensington to have £274 million in reserves while saving on the fire safety for residents of this tower block?
Are you saying it was okay for them to give rich council tax payers a rebate of £100 rather than spend it on fire safety?
Quite a few of those rich residents have felt guilty enough to give their rebates and more to the Grenfell survivors. They are also asking questions of their council.

anniebach You suggest you are compassionate towards the victims of Grenfell and yet you have said "..I suppose there were differences, [between Aberfan and Grenfell victims' responses], we acted with dignity even though some bereaved mothers took their own lives." That seems to me to be a criticism of Grenfell residents not "acting with dignity".

If by that phrase you mean that, on the whole, Aberfan residents did not "kick up a fuss" following the tragedy, the contents of a BBC documentary examines the whole background to the tragedy and its aftermath.

www.bbc.co.uk/news/resources/idt-150d11df-c541-44a9-9332-560a19828c47 For anyone who is interested in reading the report.

"Health and safety, counselling, accountability, litigation, compensation – at times met with derision – are the tenets of our modern day."

It appears there was little protest, families suppressed their grief and anger and, according to the report, many parents spent a lifetime on medication for severe depression and never really lived a normal life again. The surviving children were naturally affected by this terrible tragedy because of the all-pervading grief of the adults around them. I think anger in a situation such as Aberfan - or any situation where it is a fact that clear written warnings have been ignored - is justifiable and a necessary release for those who have suffered.

Wanting better and being able to give better are two different things. Wanting to grab property owned by people is wrong.

Was New York evacuated after the twin towers because people didn't want to look at them?

To refuse a flat because it was a mile from a child's school is a step too far

I agree, Ilovecheese.
You'd think we'd have learnt, but it still seems okay to punish the victims for complaining.

I see you are no longer pretending to be a socialist, Annie. That's good.

. The victims of Aberfan who hadn't lost their homes had to see the school every day.

The victims of Aberfan who lost their homes had to move to caravans in a field in the next village - over a mile away.

They were treated very badly, but why would anyone wish that on other people? Surely we want to to better by people this time.

Still using the victims to attack the Tories Jen?

Surely because she will receive rape and death threats because she has voiced her opinion which she entitled to do.

This Tory councillor has had to close her twitter account for fear of offending any more people.

Callous Jen? I am not callous, I can see dead people, homeless people, grieving people being used , I suggest you look at how callous are those who use this disaster to accuse a PM of murder. That is brutal.

In answer to ab's post of 10:50:34

Well said anniebach

I hope we have learned from that dreadful disaster and from Hillsborough; we should never forget them and dismiss them because of more recent tragic events.

'Lessons will be learned' is a phrase so often bandied about that we worry that it has become meaningless.
Let's hope that they have been learned at least something by now of how to deal with the aftermath and that this tragedy will be dealt with in a more compassionate manner, not forgetting that, of course, there are practicalities which have to be sorted out as well which is never easy.
Anyone who may be trying to score political points is not helping the situation move forward and people should be working together to find the best and fairest solution for everyone affected at the moment.

Fact Eleothan, no one l let their jobs because the government were protecting Lord Robbins who was taking the mining industry through changes and there was fear of union strikes.

And my remarks that there was no political point scoring is true, Corbyn is at it again this morning,

1. The victims of the tower had warned of fire risks.

1. The victims of Aberfan had warned of the stream.

2. The victims of the tower shouldn't be expected to look at the burned out tower block.

2. The victims of Aberfan who hadn't lost their homes had to see the school every day.

3. The victims of the tower just be given housing where they choose, comfortable, roomy housing.

3. The victims of Aberfan who lost their homes had to move to caravans in a field in the next village - over a mile away.

4. The victims of the tower should be allowed to choose who heads the enquiry,

4. The victims of Aberfan hired their solicitors, elected a group of people to speak to the press etc and to manage the money which poured in from around the world .

5. The police are keeping their distance in the tower rows

5. The police threw my uncle out of the inquest for requesting the deaths of his wife and two sons be recorded as murder.

No politician made political point scoring over Aberfan

Take heed Corbyn and stop using the tower victims to gain more votes

6. The victims of Aberfan had to pay to have the remaining tips removed

The Blair government gave the village the money back.

So yes, I suppose there were differences, we acted with dignity even though some bereaved mothers took their own lives.

Eloethan Maybe emphasis has shifted to the very human aspects of the tragedy. These are people's lives and futures and fair decisions have to be made carefully.

twitter.com/JolyonMaugham/status/875246963364696065

They are being offered free legal advice, Eloethan, as they should be.

Jolyon Maugham is well known among tax experts.

Comparisons have relatively recently been made between the Hillsborough tragedy and that of Aberfan - and the parallels with Grenfell have also been noted.

A safety expert, Dr Simon Bennett, (director of the Civil Safety and Security Unit at Leicester University), wrote to Cameron claiming that there were similarities between Aberfan and Hillsborough in that the responsible authorities tried to deflect attention away from their own roles in causing the tragedies. Apparently, nobody connected to the Aberfan tragedy was sacked or successfully prosecuted.

Dr Bennett said the seeds of Aberfan were sown by the National Coal Board (NCB) ignoring warnings about the instability of the tips that killed 116 children and 28 adults in 1966. Additionally, he said: “The underground springs that caused the tip to slide were marked on local maps, of which the NCB claimed to have no knowledge but many local people claimed it was widely known.

A Mr Edwards was the last to be pulled out alive from his classroom in Pantglas. He said the way the tragedy was dealt with "shows contempt for the working class people in the mines.”

This pattern of lack of interest in, and care for, "ordinary people" was apparent then and seems to be still present.

The people of Aberfan may well have been unfairly and carelessly treated after the disaster anniebach, but is that any reason that the victims of Grenfell should be treated similarly? As to your remark about no votes being gained from dead children, I am astounded that you feel it appropriate to make such a comment.

I agree with GracesGran and other commentators who have noticed the focus noticeably shifting away from issues of safety, accountability and possible wilful negligence/corrupt practices and on to the residents and how deserving they are of a say in how they should now be treated.

I sincerely hope the victims of this tragedy do get themselves some good legal advice - I would imagine that there may well be enough evidence for a classs action to be mounted.

Actually, Lillie, it does look as if all those categories are making a stance.
How do you know who is making a stance?
The ones I have seen are the family people who have been there for years and want to stay there.
Nothing wrong with that.

Their worlds have been turned upside down through no fault of their own.
They had been telling Kensington authority that Grenfell was a tragedy waiting to happen for years.
It's no wonder they do not know what they want, but know what they don't want.
They need time and space, not hectoring from the well-off.
It's no wonder they mistrust authority.

GG very sweeping statement indeed . If you look at where I placed the commas, you will see that I am not lumping ALL the victims together, but saying each case needs to be assessed individually!

When did you become so callous, Annie?

And what are the differences Jen? I accept there are no sightseeing coach trips from here to London as there was from London to here but I see no differences , well more children died so no party lost votes from them

Some, however, may have only recently been housed here, maybe they have only recently entered the country, maybe don't have children, maybe don't work, so it seems strange they are making a stance.

So any excuse to blame the victims for not conforming to what you think they should Lillie. You have just described a childless pensioner whose only network might be in that area. Why do you see yourself as a judge of what others do and don't deserve in circumstances none of us can really contemplate?

www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2017/jul/08/lack-of-equipment-and-low-water-pressure-hampered-grenfell-rescue-effort

On Newsnight last night. I don't call it campaigning. I call it getting to the truth. I don't think the LA was just deeply unpopular. I think it broke the law.
However, we will find out.
I notice that Kensington still hasn't had to give its planning and cladding information to the enquiry. Why not?
That should have been the first thing.

Campaigning by whom?