To expect cyclists to keep their hands on the handlebars?

Hardly any cycle lanes around here, but the ones I am aware of - and refuse to use - are not fit for purpose. One is nothing more than a potholed, gravel-strewn pavement. Any cyclist will tell you that cycling on gravel is like cycling on ice! The other is narrow, disappears at every side road and is frequently parked on by cars, forcing anyone trying to use it to have to move out onto the main carriageway every twenty yards, which is much more dangerous than being on the road all the way.

Road planners haven't a clue, and neither do a lot of non-cyclists. There is a roadbridge nearby that spans both railway and canal. To save money, it was built with just one carriageway, and traffic lights to control it. Problem is, cyclists, even the racers, can't get across the whole bridge before the lights change again, so regularly get abuse, even threats from car drivers who assume that they are jumping the lights. (I should add that there is plenty of room to pass, so cars are not inconvenienced, but they still feel justified in hurling abuse at perfectly law abiding cyclists!)

My grand daughter, 21, rides a unicycle everywhere has done since she was 4. Only time she has fallen off was when she was on a two wheel bike having road safety lessons. I don't know why we don't follow Holland, in built up areas you cycle on the path, out of built up areas special cycle lanes.

after 'reasonable' (last line) insert 'speeds'

I think one of the big problems in the UK is that we have a disproportionate number of young lycraed speed cyclists among the cycling population. It is seen as an occupation for the hearty and fit who want to travel at speed

We were in Belgium a couple of years and cycling was a leisurely pursuit, the vast majority of cyclists were ordinary people like you and me, every age, from 8 to 80 all seemed to be riding big sensible bikes at a leisurely speed. We just didn't see the hoards of young men on racing bikes that we see in the UK.

I do not know whether it is compulsory to use cycle lanes in Belgium if you are cycling, but our lycraed young men, would all want to avoid the wide pleasant cycle paths in Belgium because they are so full of riders going about their every day business: travelling to school, shopping, or work at reasonable and this would slow them down.

It equates to a car doing 30 mph on a motorway in the middle lane. The road was not designed for that.

I appreciate that there are huge problems for cyclists as the roads and their rules are not designed to take account of their needs. And, I repeat, they are very very vulnerable indeed.

Cyclists have been an aftertought in road planning for too long.

Think of them in the same light as sheep or cows being herded. Those aren't expected to get out of the way when they're on the road. Other vehicles, including bikes, just have to wait.

I probably would move aside sometimes, btw, but I didn't cycle like the enthusiasts do nowadays where they are often training for races and so forth.

Cyclists don't have motors. They move by muscle power. Having to pull over to let other vehicles pass would be unfair on them because they lose their rhythm.

I'm being devil's advocate saying that, but it's the truth nonetheless and not something I suppose tailback drivers have ever considered. This is why I suggest people do a good deal of cycling for a year before complaining.

Once when I was visiting DD2 in Wales and we wereout walking, there was a part where we had to walk on a country road that hefty lorries came along. There was no footpath. Each time I heard a large vehicle behind me, I stepped in as close to the wall at the side as I could. DD said: "Don't do that; we have as much right to be here as they do".
She had a point.

Same applies to cyclists who are "in the way". It's their road too, and they have as much right (and more because of the effort thing above) to use the road as any other vehicles.

I"m not excusing bad behaviour, just arguing for more patience, more tolerance, and more imagination from motorised road users. Most cyclists are also drivers so they have the same 'irritations' when they are not cycling to put up with as the rest of us.

I have nothing against cyclists - there are members of my family who are enthusiastic cyclists and have set off up huge hills in France and had a wonderful time.

But there truly is a problem with cars/buses/lorries sharing the same space as cyclists, as they are so very vulnerable, and also travel at speeds that are not the norm for the road. This means that the issue of overtaking arises. This should not be a problem - we have dozens of slow farm vehicles on the move here and overtaking them is seldom a problem, because they have respect for other road users and pull in at every opportunity to allow others to pass.

I can only speak as I find, and there is a problem here with cyclists not showing respect for other road users, not slipping into an entry momentarily to let tailback of cars past, not riding safely in single file where this is the right thing to do, weaving about the road in twos and threes and scaring the life out of other road users. I have never ever seem a cyclist take steps to make it possible for a tailback to get by, so the road can be unclogged - never.

This is clearly most unfortunate, but it is what happens. I always hang back as I am worried about causing harm to the cyclists, however unwise their behaviour; but folk behind me get understandably irritated and some very dangerous overtaking takes place.

I am always puzzled that the farm vehicles drivers can understand the need to show courtesy to other road users but not the cyclists.

I am sure that you Baggs would not behave in this manner, but sadly that is what happens round here. It is a big problem.

I do not know what the answer is, but the vulnerability of cyclists is a massive problem round here.

On the cycle paths near us, where they run out and force the cyclist onto the road, the cyclist has to give way. If they just cycle on the road and avoid the cycle path they obviously don't have to give way because they're already on the road. This is the sort of thing that speedy cyclists don't like. It never bothered me not least because I wasn't speedy, but if I hadn't wanted my flow to be interrupted I'd have avoided the cycle path in the first place and then I'd have been subject to the same road rules as all the other traffic.

That, I think, is the reason why some cyclists (actually most of them round here) don't use the cycle paths.

they

One can see why cyclists would ignore such discrimination if the rode on the cycle path, or avoid it by cycling on the road.

That's interesting, mon, because the worst cycle paths, the ones where bikes had to give way at every garden entrance (whereas other road traffic and pedestrians don't have to) is also in Oxfordshire, north Oxford to be precise along the Banbury Road. It may have been changed by now (I hope so!); I haven't been there for over a decade.

Baggs if you want to see cycle tracks where the cyclist rules then come to Oxfordshire. I have yet to see a cycle path that does not give precedence to the cyclists, everywhere except at road junctions. Pedestrians, disability buggies, cars coming off drives. The cyclist is monarch of all.

Personally I have never ever ridden without my hands on the handle bars. Not because I am law abiding but because I have always had very poor balance.

I cycled to work for some years, because it was the easiest way to get to work in a frequently grid-locked town. But I cannot say I enjoyed it, I was concentrating too hard on keeping upright. When a hip problem meant I had to give up cycling, it was with relief.

I recently drove behind a cyclist, who clearly had the same problems I had. It was terrifying. No wonder cars always gave me such a very wide birth when they went past me. I permanently looked as if I could fall off any moment.

There are, of course, bad cyclists and bad drivers and each will always say they are not. I still think cycling without your hands on the handlebars is dangerous. You may be on what you consider a safe cycle path but if your front wheel hit a stone you would end up over the handlebars and possibly seriously hurt. If you can't hold the handlebars because of pain in your wrists, get off the bike and either wait until the pain subsides or if possible push the bike.

I wish I could cycle along our amazing coastline with my DGC (again fantastic cycle paths) but my legs give way after only a short time. DH suggested in an electric bike which means I could cycle the straight bits and use the power for harder bits. But the cost.... wow. Just a tiny bit out of my league.

I am going to take extra special notice on my way home from work later Baggs . Trying to retrace the route in my imagination, I might miss something.

Crun I have never made anti-cycling rants. I used to cycle to and from work myself, although I now can no longer cycle.

I would not defend any driver driving stupidly and dangerously around cyclists - and I have seen enough of them, but cyclists are not all saints who always obey the highway code. I used to do my cycling in a university town and always made sure both I and my bike were well lit and visible once the light began to fade, but living in a student area there. Driving at night I was constantly on the look out for students cycling without lights or reflectors, slipping in and out of patches of shade and light, shooting across roads without warning.

The idiot cyclist cycling at speed and texting is another such. However given his age, probably, 50s, and the area I live in, at weekends he probably gets into his very large 4 x 4 and drives with the same scant regard for the safety of himself, his family or other road users.

If you have cycle paths in your area that have no traffic lights and no give way signs for pedestrians and side roads and house driveways, then you are very lucky, gbob. I have yet to come across one like that. Well done your local council if they have provided such, but I've a feeling that if you cycled along them you'd find that bikes are subjected to more road rules than other road traffic. Please investigate and tell me I'm wrong and I will celebrate!

BTW, just as an aside: surely I'm not the only Gransnet cyclist (past cyclist) who ever rode certain stretches (on cycle paths, not roads with cars on) without my hands on the handlebars? Come on, other cyclists, own up!

And it is fun, isn't it?

Yes, but you mean that it is SOME OF the day to day commuting cyclists, gbob. Most cyclists to not behave badly as road users. Using an all inclusive term for them is as bad as saying all Muslims are bad because some of them are jihadist criminals. It smacks of intolerant and unreasonable prejudice, or maybe just bad temper, but anyway, it's not acceptable.

Actually just spoke to DH who contradicts me. He says that the cycle routes should be much quicker as no need to dismount and no traffic lights pedestrian crossings or give way signs either.

I think I already did say it was the day to day commuting cyclists that are the problem Baggs
But happy to reiterate this again for clarity. I think the main road may be a slightly faster route (especially if you avoid lights, criss cross the traffic etc) whereas the safe, new extra wide cycle routes take a very slighly slower route. I can totally understand the problem for any cyclist where they are forced to use main roads etc. but that is absolutely not the case in and around our town. I'm not sure what can be done about it as I said earlier a police safety campaign has made no difference.

I also live in hope, crun, that a number of gransnet lurkers read what we're writing and get the point where angry bikists don't (because they refuse to, and are full of prejudice, not because they can't).

Here's a challenge to the bikists: cycle five miles to work and back in the rush hour anywhere you like every day for a year (when I was doing it it was the quickest way and I never cycled at more than about ten miles an hour (because I can't!)). I think you might feel differently then.

Yeah, I think you're right, crun. Maybe I should just start an anti-bikist campaign? Can you think of a better name for it?