To hav3 had enough of Harvey Weinstein on the radio

So what I'm taking from your posts, Trisher, is that if women complain about the behaviour of men towards them, they're victims. So in order to be strong they must say nothing?

Pity you don't have the ability to understand argument.

But I am not a second-wave feminist trisher. I just have my own views. I don't need to join a cult, for those opinions or any others. Such a pity you cannot put over your personal views over and in a way everyone can understand.

If the 'second-wave feminists are the Feminazis I have heard about I now know how they got tagged with that name.

Feminists- second wave feminists GGMK2.
You are very good at taking remarks out of context and criticising aren't you? Pity you don't have the ability to understand argument.

The only way to contest this is to maintain the idea we first brought to our actions

Whose idea; whose actions? Who decided "but if they remain strong, if they refuse to be victims they can achieve far more." Are you just saying we must accept that you are right? - again!

But only you have said anything like "women are delicate creatures always in need of protection" trisher. No one else has.

The argument being presented now Iam64 is that present day feminism has departed so far from the values of first and second wave feminism that it is in danger of returning to Victorian ideas, that women are delicate creatures always in need of protection. The only way to contest this is to maintain the idea we first brought to our actions, that women may suffer, may be abused, but if they remain strong, if they refuse to be victims they can achieve far more.

You really don't change do you Lemons

Because I hope that all on GN are rational, hence my comment about abuse of children.

Why do they have to Lemons? Why do you need so badly to be told you are right?

Before your continue you aggressive stance about disability or dyslexia try reading what I actually said. My post was nothing particularly to do with either. Not the first time in reply to your rather weird statement " "I wonder what abut those of us who have never experienced sexual harassment, are we then supposed to think there is something wrong with us?" nor when I replied as you had brought it up.

Iam64 you make some very good points.?

I am not at all sure that everybody does agree with my post though.?

By the way trisher, your quote would apply to many women I know in my personal and professional life. One of them now aged 46 is now a very strong woman, I am bowled over by the things she has achieved and is achieving. She'd be the first one to say that given her childhood experiences, she made some poor choices in adult life but that the non judgemental love and support from older/other women has helped her in her life journey. I don't want to go overly sentimental but honestly - she is inspirational and has been on the receiving end of many negative comments during her life

I am not abusing you trisher! If you repeat that I will report it.

Oh dear, I've cross posted with some more cross posts.

So you use a 'how to live your life' author as your authority trisher. How about thinking for yourself?

lemongrove, of course I expect we all agree with your post. We seem to be in a circular argument in which there is no disagreement that the aim must be to empower women, to work with our girl and boy children to help them avoid being sucked into the narrative shown to them on their telephones, where men demand sex and girls/women agree firstly to have sex and then to perform or allow sexual activity that is both painful, dangerous and to them offensive.
One of the points I was trying to make, is that the Rochdale girls (for example) and Judy Garland were of similar ages when they were groomed, given drugs and then expected to give sexual favours. JG 's adult life tells its own story. It's also sadly true that many adults who experienced csa are more likely to experience abuse in its various forms in their adult lives. That is one of the reasons I find some comments towards adult women making allegations currently, to be dismissive and unacceptable to those women.

or even antediluvian

Trisher I cannot imagine wanting to be friends with someone holding your opinions. They are antediluval!

Now we have another one with their rules! That is your opinion Lemons - people may agree with you but why do you feel the need to tell them what to think?

You really can't help it can you GGMK2? Still never mind.
I refuse to discuss disabilities or dyslexia with you for personal reasons.
I will just say that you are attacking another woman and are therefore proving that it isn't only men who are guilty of abuse. Fortunately I am a strong capable person and your sad attempts to personally abuse me have no effect.
Just as well I am isn't it?
It would be nice if you could just discuss why you feel women must be victims and shouldn't be strong women. It isn't a rule it's a philosophy.

How to win friends and influence people GGM2 ?

There is nothing worse than the abuse of children, all rational people would agree with that.
This sleazy producer using the casting couch for his own gratification simply isn’t in that league, bad as it is.

Goodness you are a rule setter trisher.

If you had actually read what I had written you would have known I was referring to your comment "I wonder what abut those of us who have never experienced sexual harassment, are we then supposed to think there is something wrong with us?" and asking if you were behaving rather like a small child did re my daughter's dyslexia when she declared it was not fair. Basically were you just making a similar cry for attention?

You are now saying "Chauvinism whatever the group it is in favour of has of course its roots in fear and in the maintenance of power." That just about sums up where you appear to be coming from trisher which is why I see your comment as chauvinist. Rules for me, rules for other women, I wonder what other rules you think you are entitled to insist on.

Of course it is great if women can do the things you suggest but by making it another rule they must obey - be strong or else - you sound more as if you are interviewing to be an aunt in Gilead than talking about normal life.

I asked you not to introduce disabilities into this GGMK2 a completely different topic and one I have personal experience of but which has absolutely nothing to do with violence and sexism.
Chauvinism whatever the group it is in favour of has of course its roots in fear and in the maintenance of power. The way to undermine chauvinism is not to succumb to it. Refusing to be a victim is part of that. When women marched through cities to Reclaim the Night they were not saying to men 'it's your fault I have to stay at home' they were saying 'this is my city and I will walk where I choose.' We need more women to do things like this. In fact it is probably time for a new Reclaim the Night demo.

I have just watched a really interesting interview with Zoe Williams who has written a piece called 'Brexit, Trump, sexual harassment – all are united by the same chauvinism' and I think she may be right. Some of what we are seeing on here is old-fashioned chauvinism.

She is suggesting that the same chauvinism which tells us that Britain is this exceptional nation which is better than all the other nations, the same narrative which tells Trump that Muslims are the enemy and he just has to have a travel ban and everything will be fine, is the same narrative that tells Theresa May that the Europeans are the enemy or immigrants are the enemy or, if you can just keep everybody else out or keep everybody else's perspective out everything will be fine, it's all a variant of chauvinism just as, on here, people have decided that if they can put women back in their chavanistic place - quite simply all will be well.

And I though we had finished fighting those battles - obviously not.