To hav3 had enough of Harvey Weinstein on the radio

We’re not defending any culture GG except possibly standing out against that which said women are such poor creatures that they have no responsibility for their own actions. You on the other hand are determined to portray them as victims.

You have done exactly the same thing again Anya. I thought these individual women might be victims - I did not describe all women as victims as you suggest.

On the other hand you can only talk about women as a group, or rather two groups, those that take responsibility and those who don't.

I imagine you feel you belong to the first group - and are therefore, because of your own perceived behavior, safe - while the women who are speaking out about Harvey Weinstein seem to have all been placed by you (no evidence, of course) into the second group which you and others seem to feel explains why they were not safe - all opprobrium dumped on them, none on Harvey Weinstein who is - something you seem happy to forget - the perpetrator.

GG, We are individuals this is why I question your claim of lumping all women together as victims

GGMK2I have not defended the culture simply explained little more about it to some of you who seem to think that it is something like a 1960's office.
Nor have I lumped all the victims into a group I have said some women see sexual favours as a way of advancing their career. Therefore some women obviously don't. Far from attacking a whole group I am trying to explain different rules apply sometimes.
So Reason why the abuse wasn't reported in the 1980's
The Weinstein bros were just getting started and were by no means as affluent as now. (or as powerful)
Which also makes you think it should have been possible to get a prosecution.
Reasons why it is reported now.
A substantial settlement has already been paid out
Some people like publicity
Some have flagging careers
I have not said there were no victims. I have not said his behaviour was acceptable.
I have said the situation is not as black and white as some people seem to think and that I dislike this portrayal of women as always being victims. In fact GGMK2 I very much doubt if you have read my posts at all. It is this clumping together of all women and assigning them the role of victim that I dislike. Some women will have used their sexuality to get what they wanted. Some women will have been coerced into having sex with him. Some women will have refused his advances and walked away. I do not know which category all of the women who are now making accusations come into. I do not know how many of these accusations are true. I do not know what part the possibility of financial gain or publicity is playing in this whole sorry saga. And neither does anyone else. It is this whole culture of a woman said it so it must be true that I find unacceptable. He may be the worst abuser the world has ever known but this trial and judgement by the media is disgusting.

We’re not defending any culture GG except possibly standing out against that which said women are such poor creatures that they have no responsibility for their own actions. You on the other hand are determined to portray them as victims.

I can’t understand your attitude any more than you seem to get my point, and resort to strawman debating, as I pointed out before.

Are we women or mice?

This is a DK dress which just shows what an absolute hypocrite she is. I’m sorry Norah for my post being too elliptical

I am sorry to misunderstand you maryeliza54. Forgive?

Hope this works - sorry my post was a bit misleading I can see that

adage.com/article/media/donna-karan-s-harvey-weinstein-crisis/310823/

I never think that how women dress is relevant to how men behave

Norah I was quoting her - she said that women often dressed in a way that was ‘asking for it’ I then made the observation that she designed these sort of dresses. I’ll see if I can post the video of her disgusting comments.

Anya, Trisher and AB you seem to be unable to see people as individuals. Trisher you have attacked Iam with:

Oh let's label all men as sexual predators and as prospective child abusers then shall we
But that is certainly not what Iam did. She is able to see individuals in all this.

You also said to me
Are you then saying that there are no women who are prepared to sexually service a powerful man and/or ignore his actions because they think this is acceptable as a trade for career advancement?

What has that to do with any of the individuals who have been brave enough to shout out the behaviour of a man which has been known about for years apparently. You seem able to ignore that, lump the victims into a group, suggest they do not meet your moral standards and offer not one iota of sympathy for the individuals concerned.

I have a feeling I have seen you do this with other issues people have too. Lump them in a group, disparage the group and then the rest of society can get on without any concern for them. Why? Would you like someone to do that to you? Or would you want them to see you as an individual? You almost seem to be saying that these women are being disloyal to society - what is that about?

Agreed Norah, I thought we'd moved on from when a woman who wore low neck tops or short skirts was "asking for it". How depressing that, in the 21st century, that opinion by women, about women, prevails. The responsibility for a man not abusing a woman lies entirely with men.

NO NO NO. * maryeliza54* Donna Karan the fashion designer you refer to designs cleavage and thigh revealing dresses for women to wear to ask for it in.

Women do NOT "ask for it"

Trisher and Anya I really have to wonder why you need, so desperately, to defend this culture. It really does beg many questions.

No Sue it would have been the word of lots of young women if they’d all spoken up.

Anyway this is all pointless as there will never be agreement between those who glorify in the ‘poor little defenceless women’ image and those of us who’d have kneed the pervert in the balls ...and actually did.

As far as I’m concerned the two views are never going to be reconciled so no point in adding anything more. Bye.

One might as well ask why many of the victims of the well known abusers we've all seen in the media in recent years waited so long to complain. The answer to me seems simple - they wouldn't have been believed as evinced by some posters on this bread or would have been regarded as 'asking for it'.

It would have been one young woman's word against the word of a very powerful, lawyered-up man and also a battle against the forces within Hollywood that conspired to keep this hidden for forty years or more.

It also appears that people did try to bring this to the fore a number of times so it isn't a matter of no one saying anything or of women jumping on a bandwagon. Read this article which has it in a nutshell. www.bbc.co.uk/news/entertainment-arts-41593384

What would be the point in her telling the police?

Now let me think about that ?

Emm...well, for a start it would have been at least recorded and then if someone else made a complaint...and then perhaps he’d have been halted in his tracks years ago cherry

Can’t believe you wrote that in all seriousness. Why do you think these abusers get away with it? ????

I haven't for one moment suggested I'm labelling all men as prospective child abusers or labelling all women as victims. I'm certainly nor infantilising women and I can't imagine any of my comments would lead to that conclusion, This kind of thread illustrates how easy it is to polarise any discussion of issues that are never straightforward.
I don't see it as "progress" nor do I rather admire anyone who uses sex to further their career. Call me a stuffy old woman, I'm happy to own that.

As for why wait forty years and how many are speaking the truth? The evidence suggests that false allegations are rare. It also shows that people often wait for long periods before they feel able to speak out. Look at the evidence currently being presented to the investigations within the Church and to the Institutional Child Abuse panel.

It will be interesting to see if more Celebrities in the US are going to be accused of sexual abuse. After the Jimmy Savile case over here, lots of other abusers were investigated. Rolf Harris etc etc.

Perhaps Trump will be named and shamed?

And the same applies now, there is no proof but it gets publicity, this is what concerns me, how many are speaking the truth ? Why wait forty years ?

Trisher what would be the point of her telling the police? It would be his word against hers, and in the 80s the attitude of the police was to assume the victim had "asked for it" unless they could produce proof or a witness.

I kept quiet because I bloody well needed that job to feed and clothe my son trisher Yes i was terrified of what the creep might do next but I was equally terrified of losing my job.

You can choose to tell the industry or to tell the legal system Cherry the question is why didn't she tell the police or the papers? Perhaps at the time she thought it worth advancing her career and now she doesn't. This doesn't make what he did right it just asks why she kept it quiet.

Anya: But for those who stand in shock while, as an actual example, this idiot masturbates into a plant pot in her presence and keeps schtum, then I say ‘Sister, FFS, shout that from the rooftops loud and clear’.

*Sophie Dix*:
“I was very, very vocal about it at the time. I didn’t want to own it. I wanted people to take it away from me. But I was met with a wall of silence. People who were involved in the film were great, my friends and my family were amazing and very compassionate, but people in the industry didn’t want to know about it, they didn’t want to hear."

How much louder should she have been Anya?

Oh let's label all men as sexual predators and as prospective child abusers then shall we Iam64 and make out that all women are victims and are never able to manipulate or use anyone in any sexual way whatsoever for their own purposes? Of course some men do as you say, but equally there are women, and I emphasise this is WOMEN not under age girls and not children who decide that actually if they want a part in a film the best way to get it is to have sex with someone who can get them it. To deny this is to infantilise women and in effect to put them back over 100 years and make them poor things who are unable to speak or think for themselves but need protection at all times.

"I think that times have moved on and we now have some women (and in some ways I admire them) who are fully aware of their sexuality and are prepared to use it."

Ive heard that same argument to describe a so called "seductive" 7 year old trisher. Or even younger children. It's particularly evident when the 'victim' is 12 years or older, whatever the child's gender.

I don't believe that predators always move between various types of abuse but some certainly do. I am not suggesting HW is someone who would abuse children, so far there's no evidence of that. One of the shocking things I learned this week, that I hadn't previously been aware of is that when Polanski was given some award (in his absence of course), Meryl Streep stood to lead a standing ovation. So very disappointing given his guilty plea to various hideous offences to one 13 year old girl. As we all know, he fled the US to avoid serving a prison sentence and has since been accused of a sexual offence in Europe.