To think women are more than just wives, mothers and grandmothers.

I could never agree with the bit in the OP that says 'just wives, mothers and grandmothers'. there is no 'just' about it.

Surely, we do what we do, generally speaking, to the best of our abilities whatever we choose to do. I didn't have work outside the home but I'm not 'just' anyone. I'm me. And, I'm bloody good at it.

Bless you, Trisher........women (even in the 21st century) are only often identified as someone's ( a man's) wife, daughter, sister, mother, step-daughter, grandmother.......the list goes on!

Simply not in their own right. Reading Rachel Johnson's (splendid woman) autobiography was insightful - she bemoaned the fact that she was overwhelmingly known as "Boris Johnsons sister" and went on to rant "as if that's my job!!!!"

Go girl!

If that’s a taboo, Stella14, I’ll join you in it. I would resent it, too. I’m quite glad I don’t live too close as well. I see so many grandparents basically doing the parents’ job, and getting more and more exhausted. It seems to be taken for granted and not questioned.

I agree with the OP. Each to their own. I love my children dearly, and between their father and I, they were never in ‘child care’ and we were very child centred when they were young. However, I see my career as my major achievement (shock, horror!!!). My grandchildren are lovely and it’s great to see them in visits every 2 or 3 months, but it works well for me that I don’t live nearby, as I would feel obliged to be available for regular babysitting and I’d probably resent it! I know saying that breaks a Grandparent taboo ?

Grandma70s but surely full time mums have their interests and aims as well. It doesn't have to be paid employment that identifies you. I do think other people are sometimes better at doing this than us Brits. I once knew an American who said that in the USA anyone who has attended a creative writing class will immediately call themselves a writer.

I think what Trisher is getting at is that we are individuals with our own thoughts, interests, and talents and ahould not be defined merely by our relationships with others.
For example when I was little I was always Mr X's daughter and later Mr Perkins' wife (my father and my husband both had high profile jobs.) Later again I was little Jonny Perkins' mum and now I'm Freddie's grandma (all names altered!)
When I joind NHR (National Housewife's Register) many years ago I had to inteoduce myself without any reference to my husband or children which was hard as I had young children at the time and was not working! So I had to make reference to where I was born & beought up, what job I had previously done, and my interests.
My career was important but now I'm retired I spend more time on ho bbies , interests and voluntary work than with C and GC (as they live far away) though as others have said my family is more important to me than anything else.
I did find it infuriating when I first moved here to be introduced at various groups as Mr Perkins' wife and tried to keep it quiet for as long as possible as he was fairly well known in the area.

One of the assumptions I find strangest is the idea that doing a paid job makes people more interesting than those who are full-time parents. I have never found this to be remotely true.

Totally agree with you Trisha on this one. I love my family to bits but I don’t live my life through them I have lots of other things that bring me contentment and happiness.My DDS also don’t just see me as mum,nan etc they see me as someone who has a full life outside of the family.

I agree Trisher. I love my family dearly but I also need to be 'me' and to be known as a person in my own right. Luckily I've been able to do this and have the best of both worlds. It could be perhaps of because I'm an only child and with an ill parent [mental health problems] had to learn to be determined! I also try to encourage my female GC to follow their own dreams

What a wonderful lot of comments. You are such a great group GNs. So much wisdom, insight, kindness and care. To use a very old phrase "I dips me lid to you all."
I guess it all comes down to that perennial later life personal review. What was it all really about? Personally I have had a good career, 3 lovely kids and 7 grandies. Not so good on the marriage side. There have been moments when it has all come rather unstuck and I've wondered what I did wrong but overall it's good and I love my littlies just so much that at times my heart could just burst. Have had to deal with one with a very serious life threatening illness which utterly devastated me but now all is good. Thank you modern medicine.
I do think that if, overall, you can say that you did your best to live a good life in its broadest sense that is probably the best any of us can do. And we each define a good life in our own way. I love the phrase a friend sometimes uses "we are but two sparks between eternity" and incredibly lucky that we were born at all.

As as single parent...I did not marry until my son was 24, so therefore I'm very set in my ways. Had always worked and did not know what it was to be a "housewife" and still don't. Both my husband and I worked in the same industry at high level. We are very close, but are both very independent and respect each others lifestyles. I will never be a grandmother, so don't know what that is like either! Having said this I wouldn't knock anyone who is a "housewife" or grandmother. We all follow different paths and its not up for criticism either way.

Eglantine21 Wise words.
At the grand old age of 35 I found the new world.
I had been a 'do as you are told child', dutiful to my parents as this was what was expected I went with the flow and became what I believed was a good mother and a stay at home wife dong what was expected of me.
I was a robot.
I say no more other than it took another person to open my eyes to what I could achieve and did.
I have been a dutiful daughter mum and wife but please allow me my own identity.

I absolutely agree, Trisher. We each have such talent in many areas of our lives. I want to be known as the person who did her all for her family but at the same time, I want to also do it all for myself.

Thanks trisha, you put it so much better than I could. All women are of value, whatever their choices or what life has thrown in their path.
Mad ferretlady I might go to church if you were there! I agree we are more than our roles, they are just what we do.
It's when those defining roles go, whether it's relationships, career, status, possessions that we truly know who we are.

Personally, when I have all my 3 kids and 5 grandkids all together, the love and pride I feel is immeasurable. That means so much more to me than all I achieved professionally, so if I am defined by being a Mum, it’s fine by me. Now in retirement, I am here if they need me, but also have a very busy life of my own, I travel a lot, and have a full and varied social life. Many young women these days all maintain their independence, successfully juggling a family and a career, more so than when we were young.

I always considered my 'work outside the home' menial or otherwise, to be part of my role/responsibilities as a mother as it was essential to the family finances. There has only been a brief spell in human history when Husband working/Wife at home was the norm for working class folks. Now it is accepted that both parents need paid employment to pay the rent/mortgage and raise a family. This without considering, widows, divorcees, single parents i.e. sole breadwinners in the family.

My 51 year old sister never married or had children. I would guess if I asked her she would pity me for my life rather than the other way around . She has loads of friends and a VERY full social life and I can't imagine her ever choosing to give that up in favour of motherhood .

No it isn't janeainsworth it is at the heart of the discussion. If you are not any of the three things , wife, mother or grandmother you are often treated as being less than other women. Hence those not married or in relationships are regarded as 'different', those without children or grandchildren are often excluded or labelled . If women are seen as being more than those three things then all women would be regarded as of value.
As for education, it is something that can last a lifetime and comes in many forms. Taking advantage of opportunities and using them for personal development is something that can offer women new chances in life at all ages. Raising children is important but does it really take a whole lifetime?

I agree. I love being a wife, mother and grandmother - but this is by no means ALL that I am. I have had a successful career in the NHS, and in later life pursued a second (unpaid) career as a priest ... which I absolutely love. Who I 'am' is much more than the sum of my various roles ...

My mother stayed at home to care for her children because her own experience was that as the oldest child in her family, it was her job to get her younger brothers and sisters up and ready for school. Her own mother left for work at 5.30am and shifts then were 12 hours. Mum swore we'd never have the responsibility for each other, or come home to an empty, cold house.
Once we were less dependent, she built a life for herself painting, sculpting did an Art degree etc etc. She was a real role model, though I have been a working mother throughout the lives of my children and faced that struggle about fulfilling both roles

That does happen too eglantine but it is a separate issue.

Usually I find it's the other way about Jane. Those who are wives or mothers or grannies or even all three tend to demean and exclude those who are not.
Often it's not conscious, just an implication that those people don't really have anything worthwhile in their lives. Or nothing of interest anyway.

is it wrong to take a pride in the nurturing of new life, in that continuation of the circle of life and the pivotal role played by wives and mothers in whatever culture?
Don’t knock it, cherish it.
Agree with you Maw
I too have been wondering where this sidelining of motherhood in favour of, and emphasis on, roles outside the home, leaves women who through no fault of their own have not had the educational opportunities some of us have had, and spent their working lives in menial, poorly paid jobs.
Isn’t it rather demeaning and condescending to take the position that being a mother and nurturing the next generation is somehow less important and fulfilling than working outside the home?

Granny23, sorry for not acknowledging your post, we x posted. Our GP surgery asks anyone who has caring responsibilities to register with them as a carer. I've mixed feelings about this because as you point out, it can become the way in which you are defined and identified to the exclusion of the other important parts of life. As for suggesting you use those 5 hours to pamper yourself, I can only think those giving the advice have absolutely no idea what its like to have the responsibilities and pressures you have every other hour of the week.
A friend aged 78 is in a very similar position - his life changed when a good social worker assessed his needs, rather than simply those of his wife. You have a right to an assessment of your own needs, something many district nurses, home carers etc do not realise. I know this may seem like yet another pointless and draining exercise for you but it's worth considering. x

(((hugs))), Granny23. Are you getting help in the house?