To think women are more than just wives, mothers and grandmothers.

I think I maybe only got married the first time so that I could lose my embarrassing maiden name!

The main reason I took my DH's surname was because always had to spell my maiden name. Ironically my brother married someone with the same initial as me, so I still see my old name on a regular basis!

My DIL hasn’t taken my son’s name. Quite right. If I had my time over again I’d do the same. When I got married in the 1960s I thought of keeping my own name, but my husband's was easier to spell so it was convenient. The grandchildren have my son’s name, with my DIL’s (or a female version of it for the girl) as one of their middle names. It doesn’t seem to be a problem at school as there are quite a few others.

Thanks for this Granny23I don't think it is usual in England. Got this photo of a gravestone in a Newcastle Graveyard. It has a Scottish connection, but no mention of who Frances Richardson was originally.

Certainly Death Notices in the local paper always start with Given name, Married surname, NEE maiden surname. All our family's graves give both surnames for married women. Surprised this is not the norm elsewhere.

I noticed that Scottish gravestones often have a woman's married and maiden name written on them. Anyone know if there is a stronger tradition of acknowledging the female line?

Neither of my daughters have taken their DH's name, as they were well known professionally by their 'own' names. This has for some reason been a problem for the schools because the children have their father's surnames.

I took my DH's surname on marriage (we all did back in the 60's) but after a few years we moved back to my birth village and everybody knew me by my maiden surname. In fact, when my father took my DH to register in the village Working Men's Club he was welcomed, not as my DF's SIL (my father being also an 'incomer' from town) but rather as 'You'll be (my mother's maiden name)'s douchter's man'.

I will try and catch up with that one mumofmb. Mr I believes that all families are run by the oldest competent female. My Greek friends are surprised and disappointed that tradition in the UK of women assuming their husbands name on marriage remains. So am I.

Did anyone see the programme on BBC2 last night about a certain area in India where a matrilinear soceity exists? I hadnt heard of that term before. The husband takes the woman"s surname on marriage. The woman is in charge of the family including finances. This position passes to the youngest daughter who is responsible for looking after her parents in old age. It was very interesting.

Women are more than just wives, mothers and grandmothers in the same way that men are more than husbands, fathers and grandfathers. For me it's that simple.
We are female and male animals getting on with life like the rest of the animal kingdom.

On the other hand reproduction (along with surviving long enough to do some reproducing) is what life, as in Life, is all about when all's said and done. Organisms that don't manage that become extinct.

I have thought of a quote. A man's love is of his life a thing apart, it is a womans sole existence. Looking it up I see it is is Byron. Have long thought that if a woman believes that, she is going to have a lot of empty time. I always felt as a person that I should have other aspects to my life. And that this in fact gives me more resilience and enables me to cope better with whatever life throws at me.
What do other people think?

gillybob I grew up expecting to get married and have children, but when I met my husband, he said he didn't want children but if I wanted them he would be OK about it. It was then that I realised I didn't actually want children and I'm glad I had the choice. My Mum was very disappointed and it took years for her to accept our decision, she was sure I would change my mind.

lemongrove I had surgery in 2009 and was told I would never have been able to have children. My first thought was that I had been taking the pill for years for nothing.

rockgran that's a lovely song. These are the full lyrics -

Everything is Possible

We have cleared off the table, the leftovers saved, washed the dishes and put them away.
I have told you a story and tucked you in tight at the end of your knockabout day.
As the moon sets its sail to carry you to sleep over the Midnight Sea,
Well, I will sign you a song no one sang to me—may it keep you good company.

You can be anybody that you want to be, you can love whomever you will.
You can travel any country where your heart leads and know I will love you still.
You can live by yourself, you can gather friends around, you can choose one special one.
And the only measure of your words and your deeds
Will be the love you leave behind when you're gone.

Some girls grow up strong and bold; some boys are quiet and kind.
Some race on ahead, some follow behind; some grow in their own space and time.
Some women love women and some men love men.
Some raise children and some never do.
You can dream all the day, never reaching the end of Everything Possible for you.

Don't be rattled by names, by taunts or games, but seek out spirits true.
If you give your friends the best part of yourself, they will give the same back to you.

You can be anybody that you want to be, you can love whomever you will.
You can travel any country where your heart leads and know I will love you still.
You can live by yourself, you can gather friends around, you can choose one special one.
And the only measure of your words and your deeds
Will be the love you leave behind when you're gone.
Oh, the love you leave behind when you're gone.

Words and Music by Fred Small

"Same with our DDs - we had to meet and welcome some very peculiar lads, although thankfully we all chose very well in the end."
Same here, Gran23

Can you imagine if your child brought home a minor royal as a prospective spouse?
Your life would never be the same again (dread the thought)

In the words of the romantic novel- reader I married him!

Word for today courtesy of granny23

Heidbangers

I've known one or two myself !

Baggs Your post has just given me the most horrible thought. If my Dad (or my Mum) had been famous, or a minor royal, then my early boyfriends would have been subject to the scrutiny of the media. I'm blushing at the thought, as a couple of them were heidbangers and best forgotten. Same with our DDs - we had to meet and welcome some very peculiar lads, although thankfully we all chose very well in the end.

Sorry gone off topic again - as you were.

I share your irritation Baggs but, my question is why plaster this young woman all over the paper anyway?

She is not famous because of her achievements or because she's a celebrity (thankfully). It's because Obama, the former Potus, is her father. Not because her mother is a well respected lawyer and advocate for human rights, either, simply because of who her father is.

Or daughters.

Title to an article in the Times this morning: "Obama daughter's boyfriend..."

So that'd be Malia Obama's boyfriend then. Why the unnecessary reference to her dad?

Am I the only one who has no idea what this thread is all about? Just seems a lot of snipping.

Isn't everything subjective? How we perceive our own lives, how we perceive others, how others perceive us and so on? How is any one wrong?

I am sure the poem was heartfelt and lovely (whatever it was)

Genuinely sorry to have caused you offence.

Why should your poem be any disrespect to me eglantine unless of course it is one of those passive-aggressive “no disrespect, but...” introductions?
In fact why mention me at all?
I have made it clear that my offering was NOT a reflection of my own life but perhaps one’s awareness is heightened at critical moments in one’s life and I had more time to reflect.
So write whatever you like, start a thread if you want but don’t drag me into it.

Absolutely no disrespect to Maw but whilst having my hair cut I've been starting a little life poem of my own.

I really wasn't fathers joy
He said "I'd rather have a boy".
My self esteem could have been fried.
It didn't matter cos he died.

Adoptive mother was so sweet
She scooped up six from off the street.
"Look how your waifs and strays have grown.
A pity they are not your own.
You'll never know the joy that comes
From wiping your own children's bums."

( sorry about that I needed a rhyme)

I never got the hang of boys.
I much preferred my books and toys.
I was astonished when K said
I'll marry you. You're good in bed."

Yes well that's just the start really....

That was to trisher btw

I think that you should stop mentioning the poem written by MawBroon as apart from being critical of it and showing a back of understanding for a recently bereaved Grensnetter, it is becoming a thread about a thread.Not allowed!