In thinking many modern parents take the easy way out

Very true paddyann, sometimes it just doesn't work out however much you want it to.
Some babies take to the breast with no problem at all, others do not. Mothers may have problems too that prevent them from breastfeeding.

sadly its not always possible to breastfeed ..even when we want to .

I bet a bottle machine is expensive. I used my breasts. Free.

annesixty Most Mums today have the bottle making machines you mention . When my Dil told me she was buying one I secretly thought that it was a waste of money . Having looked after my |DGS after she suffered whiplash I was very glad of it . She still has to measure out the powder but after that the rest is done by the machine . The bottles are not disposable and need sterilising (also a machine) and of course Mum feeds the baby as normal . I have stopped poo pooing all the modern devices that we didn't have !

I don't know any working mums who make a big deal of their jobs or hours. They just get on and do it.

Nor does anyone claim that cleaners are less important than 'career' mums. My youngest is a trainee medic. One of the first things they learnt at med school was 'Do NOT annoy the hospital porters.' Porters, whilst not massively remunerated, do an essential job and no hospital could run without them.

I think we also forget that SAHMs have been in existence for a relatively brief length of time. Mothers have always worked; in times past they worked in fields and factories, or as domestic workers; during the world wars they stepped into the places of the men who had to go and fight.

They were unceremoniously chucked out of their jobs when the men returned, of course.

Don't you think that most mums have always done their best for their children (obviously there's always an exception). Years ago homes didn't have items such as washers, fridges and freezers. When they became readily available we all moved on but, surely, getting as twin tub didn't mean you CBA, its just natural progression.
My dd and sil both both work and I know that they would purchase costumes on line but, these would then be passed on to other friends etc. For my dd memories are made doing things she enjoys - baking with the children etc.
Oh and my dd purchased a perfect prep machine when my first dgs was born. I was appalled, who would be so lazy they wouldn't make the baby a bottle. Well, me actually, it turned out to be an amazing piece of equipment.

Why does it come across ( intentionally or not) that career mums & their chosen profession is more important than say a cleaner,without cleaners hospital & schools etc would not be able to open, but generally speaking you won't hear those woman making a big deal about the jobs & hours they put in . We all need each other & should all be respected for what we do. But downgrading the importance of having a parent around in early years should not be derided & with job shares & flexible hours it is possible to work around having children without them being in child care(costly) or Grans being relied on to fill the post

Definitely more schoolmarm than orgy!

On a lighter note, teachers are expected to dress up too, especially on History days. I hoped to find an Ancient Greek costume on the internet. However all the adult costumes available were far too adult orgy costumes with plunging necklines and split skirts.
I had to resort to the adult version of the pillow case: a single duvet cover carefully refashioned. Much more suitable for a church school! ?

I did and do know some SAHMs who were very highly educated, worked for a while then chose to be at home with their children and put their energies and expertise into voluntary work.

However, family finances may preclude that these days.

Doctors can choose to only work part-time because they are paid very high salaries. Most working parents do not have that choice.
My youngest daughter sees her children for 1 hour in the morning (get up, breakfast, get ready for school/work) and one hour in the evening (homework, cook and eat dinner, clear up, prepare for next day, Bath, story, bed)
Her house is a tip and she’s always tired. Working parents need all the short cuts going.y

I sometimes think children are at the bottom of the pile these days. After all, they have no choice about how they are brought up, so parents can do as they like.

Oddly, or maybe not so oddly, the SAHM mothers I knew were all highly educated. They didn't consider it a waste of their talents to bring up their children.

We are though trisher - apparently the number of female GPs who want to go part-time after having a family is causing a problem.

Bridgeit thank goodness all the excellent women doctors and nurses who work in the health service don't have your antiquated attitude. The training, skill and experience we would lose if they all abandoned their careers would be devastating. My DIL is a great mum but she is also a professional woman and a leader in her field of medicine and I applaud her for it. She is a great role model for DGD who is already planning (at 5) a career (she's not sure what but knows she wants to be in charge!)

Well said Grandma 70s, we didn't & I still don't expect to have it all, plus no one seems to be any happier for having all the latest gadgets , Obviously not everyone is the same & having aspirations is not a bad thing, but sometimes having it all is not very satisfying or good for us.

The point I was making was that you can work & have children, but some parents wish to maintain careers whereby they don't have time to see much of their children , the focus for mums & dads is their careers, whereas I see parenting as one of the most important commitments a person can make & a job as a means to earn money .

I was a SAHM, and I’m very glad I was. That was in the first half of the 1970s. I wouldn't have had the energy to do two jobs (mother and outside job) properly. We were happy.to do without luxuries and not have much money.

I knew several other SAHMs, and nobody who worked when their children were under five.

'Quality time 'refers to both parents , Costumes I didn't mention costumes?!

Oh, worked it out? Worked Outside The Home? is that it, as opposed to a SAHM?

Well, I did both over the years, multi-tasker, that's me.

What is a WOTH mum please?

Was I one or not, worrying now.

trisher DH is very good at untangling necklace chains, untying tight knots and mending!

Would I have to join the "old grannies"? I'm 72.
Definitely not trisher - I hope!

continuation: (my message posted itself half way through a sentence)

...Give them half an hour and then dump them somewhere while I socialise, go to the gym etc etc. What most children want is to have their parents around, to be there if needed and that is completely compatible with working.

Many men over many generations have had careers which they must maintain and pursue and have still managed to spend plenty of quality time with their children. Why should women not be able to do the same?

DH and I are in our 70s and both of us had working mothers as well as working fathers, neither of us have ever felt we lost out on time with our parents because they worked.

I have seep reservations about this whole talk about 'quality' time. It is an excuse used by parents of all kinds who cannot be bothered to spend much time with their children

I had my children in the 70's, 80's and 90's and it was only with my last child that I knew of many WOTH mums, which is obviously a very different experience to some 70's/80's mums on here.

I recall my sister-in-law going back to work part time when her two girls were at school and nursery and everyone being very shocked!

We've gone through 180 degreees and it's now quite a shock when a mother doesn't return to work.

As for CBA parents, I don't think they are any more or less prevalent than they ever were. There will always be some parents who don't much care for their children but I have to say, I think the young parents I know today are doing a pretty good job.