Nursery and childcare

Taxes in Sweden are a bit higher - but not huge unless you are a a very high income earner. It is no longer the 1980s with supertaxes.

Most average income earners do NOT pay national taxes. F, for example, on an income of £36,500 - you would pay about 23-27% net in local and county income taxes depending on where you live. This includes healthcare costs so there are no additional national insurance payments in Sweden as healthcare is included in your county taxes.

Juggernaut that's OK

Sometimes posts can be taken the wrong way as you can't see facial expressions as you could when chatting over a . Some of mine have been taken the wrong way.
Have a to go with the

Exactly SusieB50, higher taxes should form part of the responsibility we all share to support children and families

Interesting comment about Sweden - a friend of myDD is "unexpectantly pregnant"with child no.3 ! There will only be 14 months between the 2 youngest so child care is going to be prohibitive if you add in after school care .They have no family around to help out. She works for a Swedish company and her OH is free lance so they have taken the decision to move to Sweden . Of course taxes are much higher there but you get what you pay for....

Jalima
I didn't intend my reply to be 'snippy', so if it came across that way, sorry!

Cold - thanks for your post, which makes the point I regularly try to make about the Scandi/Swedish systems. I stand by my belief that children are the future for all of us and therefore, its up to all of us to contribute financially and in other ways, to ensure they get the best we can give them.

Why such a snippy response to a tongue-in-cheek post of mine?

Jalima
I don't know and I don't care, I just wanted to make it plain that not all, or even many, Wirralians share 'Beau's point of view!

Presumably Beau is male Juggernaut, otherwise would be Belle do you think?

Having noticed that 'Beau' hails from the Wirral, (I'm on the Wirral/Cheshire border) can I just make it perfectly plain that she/he does not speak for the majority of us Wirralians!

The fact that families can no longer manage on one salary is very sad, and forces some people to go to work when they would rather be able to be a SAHP. But, given that this is the case, there needs to be affordable high quality provision.

The free child care that the government is offering is fine in principle; but in practice monitoring quality is very hit and miss, and, just as with residential and nursing homes, most nurseries cannot afford to run on the fee that the government pays them and are charging for "extras" - e.g. for care during the lunch hour. So it is not really free.

TBH, I am less than happy with the idea of small children having to be cared for away from their parents or wider family members. And the long long days for small children in reception with breakfast club, school all day, then after school club take their toll.

what about the folk who hava family while they have good jobs and high salaries and it all goes belly up? What do you think THEY should do with the kids they aready have? Should they drop them off an an orphanage with anote round their neck saying "my family cant afford to have me now ..so I'm surplus to requirements" What "nonsense" to borrow your own wordBeau people often have the family they can afford and then life gets in the way .YOU believe we should punish the children because the parents have hit hard times?

My children were both born and attended nursery in Sweden which offers subsidised nursery which includes all food and all activities. We provided nappies. The food was freshly made and everyone ate the same - although dietary requirements were catered for.

In Sweden nursery does not exist for babies but starts at 1 year as parents use the generous parental leave - 390 days at 80% salary and 90 days at a lower level.

Nursery fees are limited as a fixed percentage of parental income: 3% for 1st child, 2% 2nd child, 1% third child, subsequent children are free. The absolute maximum fee is £120 per month.

The generous nursery provision also means that parents are required to work. There are very few SAHPs in Sweden other than parental leave. One of the people in my Swedish GCSE class was a 17 year old who had a baby at 16. After her year at home she was required to work or return to education. She is now a nurse.

I think you might be right.

Well, this discussion is set to get interesting!

My D has just had her first child & I'm mortified that she’ll go to nursery at such a young age but she is the higher earner. Her partner is in a niche job whereby if he left he’d struggle to find another. They don’t have new cars, or debts, or drink or smoke yet couldn’t afford to pay the mortgage if she left work. She’d give anything to be a SAHM. I don’t really think it matters who pays for nappies, what matters is it’s now normal for babies to be at nursery.

I am a bit - is what you are saying that people may have more children just because they will get free schools meals?
I could have misread the post.

Sorry, I am definitely not a leftie like almost everyone on here so no, I don't believe in any socialist ideas such as free childcare or free school meals.

Sorry, no I don't believe that people who can't afford to feed their children should be encouraged to have more.

Beau I'm not aware of anyone in this country being encouraged to have more children. I suspect that what you really mean is that you believe some people should be actively discouraged.

Isn't that the thin edge of the wedge?

no I don't believe that people who can't afford to feed their children should be encouraged to have more

That is such a worrying statement!

Sorry, no I don't believe that people who can't afford to feed their children should be encouraged to have more by supplying non-means tested 'free' school meals. Anyway, that's off topic - my original point was that in this area (Wirral) those items appear to be included in the costs of the nurseries so it may be the norm in some areas and not others.

there are free school meals in Scotland for all children in primary 1 ,2 and 3 and I applaud the Scottish government for it.Surely the education of the next generation AND their wellbeing is the most important thing we can do.

I wish all mothers had the choice about whether to have some time away from working outside the home. I wish high quality subsidised child care was available to all parents. I wish employers were able and willing to support employees who are parents. When my 2 year old grandson spent 5 days in hospital because of illness recently, his mother was given 1 day 'compassionate leave'. The rest was unpaid.

paddyann, I meant that nothing in life is 'free' - someone is paying for it. Nick Clegg's 'free' school meals would also fall into that category. I personally just wish all mums could stay at home but I know that's seen as very old fashioned now.

Beau free childcare "nonsense" so families who are already struggling shouldn't get help with childcare? Of course its great your family can afford both private nursery at exhorbitant fees AND private school but sadly most people in this country dont have that advantage.Surely we should ALL want whats best for ALL children and not just those whose families can afford expensive education .You never know when bad luck will appear and those at private nursery today may well be taken out tomorrow because jobs are diappearing