Cheating the System

Also, how many of the people getting into a two and eight about it, would not do the same thing if the boot was on the other foot.?

My gd went to the local school near our home. She lived with us from Sunday night to Friday. The reason being her mother had mental health problems and couldn’t cope with a hyper active child. The school was also far better than the failing school she had been attending. She started at Easter, they had a place available so I didn’t feel any guilt.

Barmeyoldbat, the current system allows for exceptional needs although not always terribly successfully.
Foxyloxy, I certainly would not, I would however use whatever legal avenues I could.

Witzend - you are of course quite right about the OfSted judgements.

One local tiny village school has a cohort of 3 children in one year. Two of those have special needs, so the stats that OfSted will base its judgement on will say that 2/3 of the children in that year are failing to meet national targets - instant failure in OfSted's eyes - now if that is not barmy I do not know what is!

Talking of Ofsted reports, in the library where I used to work a childminder was a regular visitor - a lovely person minding 2 little boys of 2 as well as her own 2 year old.

She once came in asking for books on disability and something else, probably multiculturalism, for children that age. Reason being, the Ofsted inspector had ticked her off for not having any, and was going to mark her down for not having any.
For 2 year olds, I did think it a bit daft.

On similar tack, when my mother was well into her 90s with advanced dementia, and long past being able to enjoy or participate in the care home's activities, I once had the staff tell me apologetically that they'd had to cart her off to some activity she didn't want to go to, because the CCQ inspectors were visiting, and anyone 'just sitting' would mean a black mark.
Never mind if the person was way past doing anything else - talk about a tick-box mentality.
I told them that in future would they please leave her in peace, and refer the box tickers to me.

I would not 'grass' on someone cheating the system. Nobody has the full picture of anothers family life do they?
My dgd won an appeal to go to the school shes in. This was for several reasons but probably the main reason being she was a looked after child, living with me.
The catchment system however does seem to be very confusing. How can one side of a street be included but not the other? I don't have a solution though ?

I was lucky with DD, when we moved to live with OH who became my DH we managed to get DD into local Primary School which his 2 DC had attended, from there she went to Secondary School which we could see from home. Her Secondary School didn't have the best reputation when she started there but with a new Headmistress coming in when DD left it was a sought after School with a waiting list.

When DGS1 had to go from Part-time Nursery School to Full-time Primary School he was offered a place at a different school. DD did appeal but lost, however she is very happy with his present school (much better suited to DGS than previous school).

It's a lottery regarding school places, luckily DD went from feeder Primary to Secondary & then onto College as her school was a feeder for the College (she applied for 3 Colleges & was accepted at all but chose the nearest one)

If said child was offered a place abd subsequently had an accident at school where she was tamen home by a teacher or some similar incident, then the scam would be found out. Likewise, letters being sent to the grans address etc.
I don't hold with lying as there is nothing to hide with the truth and it makes things so much simpler.
I'd not interfere it had nothing to do with me but if I was asked, I would tell the truth.

Sorry...and, taken.

All systems are open to gaming by savvy and keen parents who, naturally, want the best for their children. As a parent in a grammar area and a retired teacher I have seen the mild and the extreme ends of getting children into a desirable school.

For myself, I let my kids do the eleven plus and they both passed. I was berated soundly by my leftward leaning sister who thought grammars were unfair and who then moved fifty miles to a a town (with the second largest Conservative majority in the country) just as her eldest child was about to be given a place at a poor secondary school where she lived.

All three of her children then hoovered up places at very good schools, about which she boasted loudly. She used her economic clout to take school places which local children, whose parents had been paying the council tax for years, would have been allocated.

Which was fairer? Who's to say?

Personally, I don't really blame parents who do their best for their own kids.

Sorry, two 'a's when there should have been one. No edit button!

Luckygirl. It will never happen. As they say, "Everyone is equal, but some are more equal than others!"
Some people will always be willing to pay, or cheat, to get their children a better education. It's just tough on the ones who are poor and honest.

Poorer people live in poorer areas....that's economics... poorer areas produce poorer schools...that's obvious... I don't blame anybody for trying to step up their child to a better school. They've all seen where 'playing by the rules' gets them....nowhere!! My daughter lived in a poorer area by choice but the school her son would have gone to had 41 different languages spoken !! She moved to a 'better' area and her son got into a good school .... having the money helped her ... this system is rubbish, and while money KEEPS on buying priveilage I for one will not condemn people for trying to better their childrens' chances!

Principle are great ....for this at the top of the pile!! Those at the bottom can't afford them!!

The problems have arisen because not all schools are under the Local Authority.
And I agree that primary pupils being schooled out of catchment is crazy, as that also stops other children going to their local school.
Local schools for local kids.

For well over a year I was going once a week to help an Eritrean woman with her English, which was actually pretty good. She wasn't 100% happy with the school her elder child was at, and kept on and on at me to help get her into a closer one that had a better Ofsted rating - and was very sought after.

I could never make her understand that no amount of my writing to the head, or phoning her, or begging, would make the slightest difference - it all had to go through the council's official channels, taking into a/c catchments and waiting lists.
It became extremely wearing trying to convince her that it wasn't that I was unwilling to help, but that given our system, my badgering the head teacher would do no good at all.

All four of my Grandchildren are in schools in their catchment area. The Senior school is borderline failing on the Ofsted reports yet my eldest GS, 16, is thriving. However there gas been a catalogue of failures with my 11 yr old GS who is ASD/ADHD with additional complex learning difficulties. We have been fighting for 18mths to get him into a local SN school and are being blocked at every turn. (The LEA judged him to be - "too intelligent to go to SN schools" in 2017! ).
My 10 yr old GD is thriving in her Junior school while her 6yr old sister
Is attending a local faith school because, due to severe life threatening food allergies, she cannot attend a school with no dining room.
Fortunately all schools are in their catchment area but my daughter would be, and is, prepared to take her children to whatever school is best for them, in or out of catchment.

This is the 'other side' of school assignments! (We find out in early May if my GS gets a place at SN school.)

This pees me off with a CAPITAL P ! Have one daughter with two children - one a 5yr old who started school last September -- SHE LIVES OVER THE ROAD FROM ME -- older daughter with four children, including a new-born and another granddaughter, almost 5 yrs old at the time last September -- WHO LIVES THREE ROADS AWAY FROM US.Have one junior school on different sites wanted both granddaughters going to the same school site as my older daughters first two children BOTH my granddaughters went to the same nursery and believed they would be going to the same school BUT authorities sent older daughters little girl to same school site as siblings and other granddaughter to other site.I found this very cruel -- we are within similar to each other and both sites.We had no redress in law to fight it -- we could not say that my younger daughter had NOT been offered her first place school because they class two completely separate buildings in separate roads as ONE SCHOOL.Very difficult having to explain this to my granddaughters -- also makes pick up/drop off and visiting difficult -- if both daughters need help with this -- can't be in both places at the same time -- they had a grandparents visit and I had to spend half my time in one class and make my way up to the other site not easy as I have limited mobility anyway so anyone cheating the system really isn't being fair to others-- having said that -- all schools should be so good that their places are actually sought after.

I assume, saggi, that in the school where 41 different languages are spoken the children do all speak sufficiently good English for efficient teaching to be carried out? If not, it must have a catastrophic effect on their Ofsted ratings, and that speaks volumes.

I used to work in the admissions department of an LEA and cannot see what is ‘barmy’ about schools having catchment areas - it is surely better for everyone that children go to their local school. Admissions policy remains the same, but the borders of catchment areas increase or decrease in accordance with the number of applications. The system becomes lopsided when the brightest children are creamed off to ‘good’ schools which attract the best teachers - leaving the dregs for children whose parents are not so pushy. Everyone wants the best for their child, but the system of determining what a ‘good’ school is deeply flawed. A mediocre school may appear successful with good ratings but in many cases the ‘value added’ is a better test of how good a school is: a school in a deprived area may encourage a child to improve several grades from their starting point whereas the school that starts out with brighter children may only improve the children by one or two grades. It is fraudulent to put a false address, and if discovered, parents would certainly face sanctions the least of which would be for the child to lose his or her place.

My GCs were with us from 7.15am to 18.00 every days the parents could get to work. We were also first call for any emergencies, so if a child was injured or ill, we collected them. Because of that, they thought it would be best to have a school near us. (Their parents couldn’t afford a house near us.)
My DD went to the school nearest us and asked about places, giving their circumstances. She was told “No problem, just put us first on the list.”
When allocation time arrived, they had lied. Not only could they not have a place at the school where she had asked, but because she had not put them first, there were no places at the local schools near them either. She was offered a place at a little village school 3 miles away further on from us (about 10 miles away from them). Fortunately, we can drive and it turned out to be a good school, but she wished she’d lied and given our address as hers.

Every day so

The system may be 'barmy' but it will not be improved by people cheating. Have the parents no thought for their child's embarrassment if caught out ? I once worked in a school where a pupil'd parents had to be phoned on the first day and it became apparent that they had lied to obtain place. The child had been assigned a class and some books had been given out but she was still required to leave. She had a full uniform for our school.
If some of you think this was harsh think of the child who was first on our 120 child long waiting list who started the next day.

Meant to say, had they applied to that little village school, they wouldn’t have got in because it’s well out of their catchment area. The second child only got in because of sibling rules! How crazy is that?

As a teacher if I found out a child's parents had put grandparents house down on form just to get child the place I would report it. Children who do live close by and should have a place at the closest school to them often miss out because this is actually a common problem. It annoys me that the parents pull this deception and then when caught out, often by the child telling the teacher they have to pretend to live at grandparents, the parents then appeal on the grounds it will be disruptive for their child to move after settling in. I don't think cheats should gain out of deception as at least it is condoned or at worst encourages it. Not all parents have cars and so some have to walk long distances or travel with a small child by bus to get them to school further away.