AIBU To wonder why and on what basis we attribute colour

Perhaps it comes from the distinction that was made in ref to South Africa in news bulletins & newspapers , they always refer to Black South Africans & White South Africans

The points you made are very interesting Jalima1108 and absolutely true.

Any discussion about the evils of slavery should acknowledge that other races were involved too.

Strangely though, very few do, as it doesn't fit in with the 'vile white supremacists' rant does it?

My dgs sang “baa baa happy sheep” - certainly not an urban myth

JenniferE yes there are instances of white slavery etc but historically there were overwhelmingly more cases of white Europeans (& other whites) subjugating & mistreating other races especially during colonial times. I don't think its really a fair comparison!

pollyperkins I disagree with your assertion that white Europeans were overwhelmingly the main perpetrators of slavery. Europeans were very late to the slavery arena, this had been going on for centuries before in Africa, the Middle and Far East and continues in a lesser form today. Slaves were sold by their kinfolk to passing ships and if you research the subject you will find that they were more than disappointed when UK called time on the practice. Initially those bought in Africa were known as indentured workers, the same status as many workers in UK. There is little comment on those regions that pre-dated the Europeans being sold slaves on the lives and treatment of the same.
And yes, very little comment on the white slave trade, or indeed the inhumanity shown to UK workers and those forcibly transported during the same period.

To believe that slavery was only perpetrated by white people against black people and has been abolished is to shut your eyes to what is happening today in areas of the world.

Well we know the Greeks and Romans had slaves, but in recent history the North Atlantic slave trade and slavery in the US and Caribbean benefitted Europeans and made huge wealth which we can still see evidence of today. Slavery wasn’t abolished in the US till the 1860s so it is relatively recent and within generational memory, plus segregation and lynchings in the US went on till the twentieth century. Whilst slaves were not used in England ( we had our own working class who though not slaves were often tied to employers and not seen as lessser humans) but used within the Empire and many British people lived lavish lifestyles literally off the backs of slaves, who were considered disposable property. Yes I know there were some Africans and Arabs involved as middle men in the trade ( the trade died out before the abolition of slavry itself) but that did not engender anything like the wealth made by Europeans. We shouldn’t brush this history under the carpet and should recognise that the effects of this period of history are still evident.

Yes we know there has been other races involved in slavery and it still goes on, but this was not as systematic and on such an organised scale as the North American trade.

I am not only referring to the Slave Trade but the treatment of Indians by colonists, also of aborigines in Austria, blacks in S Africa during apartheid and in the southern States of the USA after abolition - and many many more examples.

www.africanecho.co.uk/africanechonews5-sept29.html

Joolsnan I don’t want to sound critical but half caste is a terribly derogatory term and never used in this era it’s the equivalent of calling someone a ‘ spaz ’ or mongol never done now

I agree Polly, European colonists thought the native inhabitants savages and needed civilising by the white man.

I didn't really want to get into slavery and white imperialism. But we appear to have slid into it.
pollyperkins I had your preconceptions about white imperialism until I travelled and lived in some of these countries (not Australia). In India I found that there were nearly as many who wished that they were still a British colony as were happy with independence. Indians retained their culture and religions and talk of the structure, democracy, education, healthcare, railways etc. that UK brought to them.
In South Africa apartheid surprised me because I thought it was purely black exclusion yet there were places where whites were not allowed to go to. A 'Black' South African friend actually had better educational opportunities than me from a UK mining village she having a degree and working in a Middle Eastern country that I also worked in, this gained throughout the period of apartheid.(I still don't fully understand why it was imposed or agree with it) white South African friends talk of fear, murders etc. and if you go there today you will note all of the security measures homeowners have to take. Kenya considers itself a 'good' nation (and it is) and retains much of the British influence.
I can't talk about Australia, America or South America. I have to say my preconceptions were challenged.

Does anyone remember this song?
www.youtube.com/watch?v=zAWn4FO1MOw
One of the comments says it has been banned by the BBC because it's racist.

Bluebelle This has been brought to my attention. Having not been exposed to the extremes of PC for a while I was unaware of the term not being PC. I have since researched it and it's offensiveness not clearly defined as are all of the other terms attributed to this phenomena. Some of the other terms on here are, by some considered not PC. My vocabulary is obviously old school so apologies to any multi-racial, bi-racial or whatever the correct term is today if I offended you. I truly did not intend to do so.

Yes, by BonyM, & they obviously didn’t think so.

and it still goes on
That is the point I was trying to make; I was not denying the systematic way the European slave trade operated.

I can't remember the title of the book but it described the arrival in the UK of one the young "Windrush" immigrants in the 1950s and her subsequent life. I read it many, many years ago but always remember her being massively disappointed that Brits weren't white at all, but, as she described them, pinko-grey.

The whole concept of "race" has now been completely debunked- we are all descended from that first African Eve and are all part of one global family whose members made adaptations to the conditions of the different environments lived in and moved through over hundreds of thousands of years. It is as simple and as complex as that.

We also have cultural affiliations and in multicultural Australia I am an "Anglo Australian" as all my ancestors migrated from the UK and Ireland. My half Italian grandchildren call me Nonna so I am the Anglo Nonna. In Oz it is common to talk about someone as being Greek Australian or Vietnamese Australian or whatever is relevant. It is simply acknowleding and celebrating the cultural link to our own family's heritage.

None of this detracts from the fact that all countries have dark and cruel pasts that cannot be denied and need to be faced and understood. That too is part of our shared history.

Just people at the end of the day.....

My gd is mixed culture, so I suppose it’s a lovely light tan colour, I don’t know.
She is doing an essay on colourisim apparently African girls don’t like mixed culture girls, apparently they are far more attractive she has been spat at in the street, given dirty looks.
We are quite shocked to learn of this and what she has been telling us is quite sad really.

Apricity your post emphasises my point that most people are defined (if necessary) by their origin. Why do people of African origin have to be defined as Black no matter how dilute this part of their heritage may be. Caucasians are referred to as White, but not to the same extend and in UK you never hear of other races defined by their colour. I wish we could get away from this and not use skin colour to define a person.

I am slowly losing the will to live & I'm only 62. I haven't a clue how define people in a "politically correct way" either by colour or gender (see previous post re MP). Think I'll just sit quietly in my home & speak to no-one

Legs55 I'll join you

It is handy to have a word that describe a person’s cultural heritage as that contributes so much to who they are. ‘Black’ is useful in so far as it refers to some social aspects of families with African roots, however distant, but ‘African’ is so much better and as a reference to culture it could theoretically also apply to people of any colour, even white, who came from that culture. Likewise growing up as a person of colour can be a very different experience ( due to the way people react to you) to growing up ‘white’ , (this applies to anyone growing up in a minority setting and in some ways this argument is similar to that in the thread on calling youself a woman).

Just as a matter of interest, until recently, African albino babies were often killed or shunned ( as were twins).

Americans still refer to a tarmac surface as blacktop. Don’t you just love them for calling a spade a spade?

I passed a black sheep amongst a flock of white ones, yesterday - should I call it a sheep of colour?

Scientifically, white light contains the wavelengths of all colours and black light contains none, so who is a person of colour?