AIBU To wonder why and on what basis we attribute colour

Hasn't the message about how white people behaved in the past been hammered home enough already maryeliza54?

I'm sorry but you remind me of those university students who rant and rave and demand that statues of white prominent figures from the past be removed because they don't happen to fit in with current thinking.

I repeat - madness.

My beautiful DGD is of 'dual heritage', could 'pass' for white but defines herself as black, despite being 75% white. She is as English as they come. Her partner is white, so if they have babies, they will be what was once called 'octoroons'!

No it’s not all madness at all - anyone with the faintest idea about the way in which all sorts of ‘non white’ people have been treated over the centuries by ‘white’ people - bought, sold, excluded, segregated, discriminated against, otheed and treated as sub- human or lesser knows that.

It's all madness isn't it?

Does anyone remember a while back, a furore over Jeremy Clarkson describing a sloping bridge?

Someone, somewhere claimed that years ago 'slope' was an insulting term to describe Asians. Despite the fact that practically no-one had ever heard the word used in that way (except of course the outraged person!) there was the inevitable outcry.

Of course Clarkson is not the most politically correct person, but it's still utterly ridiculous.

Yes it sometimes does seem one sided. For example towards the end of my teaching career we were told not to say blackboard (had to say chalk board) yet apparently whiteboard is ok!

petra MUCH more classy than my suggestion - thank you!

I think gammon applies to elderly men who rant about Brexit or other issues and go red on the face. But still offensive.

jenniferEccles
Black truffles

pollyperkins is absolutely correct in saying it's a complete minefield these days about what we are and are not 'allowed' to say.

How about this new horrible new term used to describe us (ie white) as gammon, presumably because it resembles our skin colour?

Can you imagine the outcry if we described, say blacks as a black food. I'm struggling to think of any actually except black pudding, but the point is the same.

Of course it's all wrong, but it does seem to me that accusations of 'racism' do seem to be very one sided.

I agree and its an absolute minefield knowing what is and what int acceotible these days. I was told quite clearly by a west indian friend that it is correct to refer to people like her as black and definitely NOT coloured (though not so long ago that was the politer thing to say.) But now I often hear the phrase 'people of colour' - how is that different from coloured? Also its difficult if you don't know where people are from to know whether to say W Indian, African, Pakistani, Bangladeshi, Indian, Sri Lankan etc. Easier to say black or Asian but none of us (I presume) wants to be offensive! Anyway many of them are British and born in Britain so to say where are you from is also inappropriate!
I also had a black colleague who thought it was ridiculous to avoid the word black when it was simply descriptive as in Baa baa black sheep, black board, black coffee -in fact he always asked for black coffee! If the term is derogatory as in black sheep of the family, little black book, black mark, that's a little different.
I also never uderstood why Obama was always referred to as black!!

Because if the legacy of slavery most black people in the US and in the U.K. from the Caribbean will have some white ancestry.

My neice and nephew are of British and Pakistani origin.

(Their father was something of a disaster area , but that was another matter. )
I was just talking to my (now 50yr old nephew) on the phone about this yesterday.

The description of defining oneself as "Black" has become a statement for many black people to use for themselves as a statement of their own ethnicity and their pride in that.
Black is beautiful etc.

Showing a pride in ones ethnicity or confidence in it probably a good thing but there is a still a lot of racism .

Some of you must have heard this very stupid idea where several years ago some ignorant people were suggesting that we should not describe someone as Black or sing Baa Baa Black sheep etc, etc. because you should not say "Black." That itself depends on how someone wants to define as themselves

I have always felt that some people who did hold that idea were trying to make a point about having to be politically correct in a manner that might suggest that black people are causing every one else a nuisance.

Some people take pride in identifying with a particular nation or race and they are perfectly entitled to do so.
I take the view that I happened to be born in Britain of Caucasian parents and it’s nothing for me to be either proud of or ashamed about. Nor would I respect anyone more or less depending on their country of origin or their ethnic group.
I think the pressure to identify as Black, Asian, White, etc comes in part from the requirements placed on organisations to monitor the ethnic composition of their employees, members, or consumers and to prove that they don’t discriminate in employment or service provision.

The term half caste is unacceptable and if "political correctness" deems it so, then, in my opinion, that is a good thing.

lol, Iam64 'dual heritage' ?
Well my DGS is mixed race and we are quite happy with that description ☺️

That's probably the reason Beau, the USA has a big issue with race, ironic considering there is no such thing as an American other than the native Indians. However dreadful the slavery period, and the abuse perpetuated during that time, I don't think that applies to either Obama or Meghan Markle. But, what do I know? This is such a contentious subject area for some people, and no doubt there will be much speculation as to the colour of the skin of any child born to Harry and Meghan. Does not bother me one jot, but hopefully it will cause a few aneurisms among the more bigoted and narrow minded newspaper editors!

Gerispringer
Hopefully this fixation with colour will fade as more and more people are mixed race

I wonder if it ever will as it appears mixed race individuals with whatever percentage of black origin seem to tend to align themselves as black. Other mixed heritage individuals don't seem to do this.

Anyway I still wonder if we are discriminating against other persons of colour by not referring to them by their skin colour or would they be offended
Tick relevant box:
White British
Black British
Yellow British
Red British
Beige British
Olive British
Not sure

Gerispringer says it all, clearly and accurately.
“One drop me f black blood meant that a person wad considered black and discriminated against”.
Many black Americans have other races in their background, often the white skin contribution wouldn’t have been by choice.
The legacy of slavery (and colonialism) lives on.
Beau, I was advised I shouldn’t have described someone as mixed race, it was ‘dual heritage’. That was six years ago, no doubt it’s different now ?

I was similarly puzzled about Obama, GillT57 - I kept saying, 'but he isn't black'! i just thought it was an American thing - here I'm pretty sure we would have said 'mixed race' but they're obsessed with race over there - they had apartheid until the 1960's, didn't they?
Joelsnan, I don't think one is supposed to say 'half caste' now either, just 'mixed race' - before the pc police come after you ?

for historical and cultural reasons one drop of black blood meant that person was considered black and along with that discriminated against. Hopefully this fixation with colour will fade as more and more people are mixed race, but it hasn’t been that long ago since these views of difference were entrenched,.

I understand what you are saying geri and agree with most of it, but what I meant was why is the black 'part' of a mixed race person thought to be more relevant than the white 'part'? Sorry perhaps clumsy terminology. There was a huge furore/celebration depending upon their views, on the election of Obama, and a great emphasis on him being the first black president of the USA, but he wasn't, he was the first mixed race/heritage president of the USA, it was almost as if his white Mother didn't exist or fit the description.

Gerispringer But do you think by requiring skin colour to be referred to by African derived individuals they are inadvertently perpetuating the 'lesser being' ideology and division. Because whatever our skin colour, what is beneath is exactly the same.

Sadly, there’s too much fixation on skin tone, isn’t there? We are all human and underneath our skin, we all have the same colour blood and bones.

It’s because white slave owners who frequently raped or had relationships with black slaves, the resultant children were considered slaves if they had one drop of negro blood. Those with lighter skin would be considered higher in the pecking order and may be employed as house slaves rather than in the fields. Anyone with any kind of black ancestry was discriminated against under segregation laws after slavery. It’s not that black heritage more significant than the white, it’s any black heritage was seen by white supremacists as meaning that person is not of pure blood, so considered lower in social status.