The shame of Austerity Britain

Food banks and their volunteers offer a brilliant service.
But they shouldn’t be needed in a prosperous country in the twenty first century.

We've just got too many people in a small country. The coffers aren't a bottomless pit.

Yes, the new coalition told us in 2010, didn't they? That things were going to be tough, we're all in it together, etc. Haven't seen them tightening their belts though? We're all being taken for fools.

I volunteer in a food bank.
Lots of different people use them.
Low pay high rents are a problem
0 hour contracts
People claiming benefits that they are entitled to waiting up to 12 weeks for application to go through.
People living pay check to pay check need a new washer for example then can’t eat.
It’s very sad but the community is amazing at donating food and toiletries.

If national finances were that easy to manage, then labour wouldn't have left that famous note saying "sorry there's no money", and our national debt wouldn't have grown so much under the Conservatives.

It seems neither party are particularly clever about it.

Everyone not in government has all the answers, but I wonder if they'd still be so vocal if they were in charge and found that armchair economics is very different to actually making it work in practise.

I could not disagree more. I would not be willing to pay any extra tax and I am angry that someone could say 'the Rees-Mogg creature' about the first decent, honest politician that we have seen for decades so I will not comment further, except to say that in every respect I prefer the American model apart from healthcare where I believe the French have it right.

For some years we has a tax rate of 22% and for some nebulous reason an incoming Tory Govt reduced the rate. I for one would be quite happy to pay a couple of pence in the pound more for better services etc.
The personal allowance now is well over £11K which is a fair amount.
Many countries have no personal allowance but a very low starting tax rate. In France there is a Wealth Tax. You need to declare your worldwide wealth if you live in France and your wealth is over a limit.The total wealth needs to be over something like 1.3 million€ - we do not come into this category as we do not have personal pension funds (Govt pensions) but our friends with their own funds do require to declare and pay. Maybe this is the way to go -I have no idea if it includes the house you live in but I assume it does include other property.

Edit button. - Of course we need to vote this government out. We need to have a really effective opposition that not only it’s own supporters will vote for. Many remain anxious that the current leadership of the opposition are more scary than the government. How can this be ?!

I read the New York Times article yesterday. It’s an excellent piece of journalism. This morning, the daily mail has responded with fury. How very dare those lefty US journalists tell the truth about the impact of austerity. One of the ways to claim the article is fake news is to dispute the claim the police station is closed. It’s been moved into the fire station, so that’s ok then.
I’d be happy to pay more tax to fund excellent public services. I identify with Scandinavian countries, tax high, fund excellent public services and ensure the rich, the multinationals pay up.
We are heading for an American system, the poor and disadvantaged on the scrap heap. Education, health, care for the sick and vulnerable only available if you’re wealthy.

knickas23 the government we have was voted in by us. So we, everyone of us, are the turkeys voting for Christmas.

The only way things will change is if we, everyone of us, especially those with party allegiances accept that good services mean higher taxation and are prepared to come forward say so and vote for them.

Singling out individuals or small groups who are very rich gets us nowhere, just allows us to bleat about how unfair everything is without doing anything about it. In which case we deserve the lousy services we get.

Turkeys voting for Christmas. Exactly.

Anyone believe in a new world order and austerity being part of that?

I just despair. Money goes to money. The 1% get richer. Greed and me first mentality has taken over completely in the higher echelons of power while the rest of us struggle, and worse, accept it's right and proper! Turkeys voting for Christmas. I have no energy left to get mad anymore. Until this greedy, corrupt government is out there is no hope for us as far as I can see.

The taxation system is a mess of course. The richest manage to create trusts, companies, and off-shore arrangements to avoid tax. Corporation tax has been cut. While our National Insurance scheme is a regressive tax system that taxes people less the more they earn with a ceiling at £45,000 income p.a.
Council tax has many issues too.

But taxation doesn't fund spending; spending has to come before taxation else there's no money to tax.

Sorry, that is wrong. It is sometimes possible to pre-empt capital expenditure, but what is wanted in this country more than anything at the moment is revenue expenditure to properly fund the NHS, education at all levels and care for the elderly and that has to come out of current income.

It was borrowing to fund revenue expenditure that was the siren that lured Gordon Brown to his destruction and landed us in this current mess, financial crisis of no financial crisis, that was just the cherry on the cake!

fair taxation is just one of those weasel words used, especially by Labour to pretend that major improvements in welfare standards can be got without raising general taxation. It can't and the sooner we realise it the better.

The only way to finance improved services is by raising taxation and the only way to raise a significant sum is to raise the rate of general taxation. Sure put lots of 'fairer tax' bells and ribbons on it if you wish. I am grown-up I don't need a spoonful of sugar to help the medicine go down.

Look at countries with the standards we aspire to and the basic rate of tax is higher than ours. You cannot have your cake and eat it.

This is quite an old reference but it is still appropriate
www.theguardian.com/money/2008/nov/16/sweden-tax-burden-welfare (and its from The Guardian!)

Of course the Government would say that the current low unemployment rates prove the economy is doing well. We know that in reality the employment market is very difficult, with an emphasis on low wages, gig economy, and zero hours contracts.
No longer is it easy to walk into a reasonably well paid, secure, pensionable, union protected job.
Family tax credits have been reduced to nearly nothing, childcare places (supposedly free) have been squeezed.

Sorry Lazigirl crossed posts above.

Sorry, I attributed the voting for low taxation comment to the wrong person

I don't choose parties which go for low taxation, Jane. I would go for a party which went for fair taxation.

But taxation doesn't fund spending; spending has to come before taxation else there's no money to tax.

We spent our way out of austerity (or would 'depression' be a better way to describe it?) in the 1930s and most notably after WW2. Yes, the money post WW2 came from the USA but the point is, whatever the source, we spent it and the economy responded. Massive housebuilding programme for a start, with a boom for all the related industries and businesses. It was the foreign debt and having to stick to the gold standard which ultimately caused problems, as well as failure to modernise.

Ironically, the panacea for lifting communities out of poverty is usually held to be investment. If it works for a deprived community why is it frowned on for a country?

As far as I can see, all that austerity has done is increase welfare spending (causing the government to respond by cutting benefits to make the money stretch) and cause people to have to take low wage and insecure jobs in an effort to survive. Not only that, but it has led to damaging cuts in public services which are affecting people's health, safety and wellbeing (I'm thinking of things like libraries and the arts here which contribute to our enjoyment of life and so our mental health)

I could go on but I don't want to bore people any further...

Varian yes, but with a lot of help from the Marshall Plan, an American support programme.

But I will say it again, the problem lies with us. We are the ones voting for parties on the basis of low taxation or cloud cuckoo plans to increase welfare without increasing taxation.

You are not being unreasonable mostlyharmless we are having services cut all the time while people like the Rees Mogg creature add to their multimillion property folios. How is this progress?

Did the Uk in the immediate post war years not implement an anti-austerity programme of re-construction?

Jane10 America between the wars funded huge infrastructure and other public investment to help them get their economy back on its feet. It was called the New Deal. Some aspects of this system were questionable but, economically, it helped.

Why is everyone talking about austerity is a political problem. No it isn't it is a personal problem. We are responsible for austerity, every one of us, when we go to the polls and choose to vote for parties that promise low taxation or those that pretend that welfare can be improved without substantial hikes in taxes.

Look at the response there was to the Lib Dems when they wanted to add just 1p to tax to improve education.

MaizieD Can you give an example of a country who has spent their way out of austerity in an effective way? That's an honest question btw.

BRITAIN’S BIG SQUEEZE
From the New York Times yesterday

In Britain, Austerity Is Changing Everything
After eight years of budget cutting, Britain is looking less like the rest of Europe and more like the United States, with a shrinking welfare state and spreading poverty

Conservative Party leaders initially sold budget cuts as a virtue, ushering in what they called the Big Society. Diminish the role of a bloated government bureaucracy, they contended, and grass-roots organizations, charities and private companies would step to the fore, reviving communities and delivering public services more efficiently.

To a degree, a spirit of voluntarism materialized. At public libraries, volunteers now outnumber paid staff. In struggling communities, residents have formed food banks while distributing hand-me-down school uniforms. But to many in Britain, this is akin to setting your house on fire and then reveling in the community spirit as neighbors come running to help extinguish the blaze.
www.nytimes.com/2018/05/28/world/europe/uk-austerity-poverty.html