Rape just bad sex Germaine Greer

Technically it is rape MargaretX and the point is that it should be possible to prosecute for this but it should carry a lesser sentence than a rape where terrible violence is used.

Very often there is more force being used than just a penis. knives and guns have been used in rape, indeed women have died from being raped.

To place that in the same position as a husband forcing his wife ot accomadate him- well that's awful but not rape.

A date rape could be as terrifying as rape by a stranger who makes violent threats.
In both cases, a woman is aware that the man is much stronger than she is and that he could choose to do her serious injury if she tries to resist.

No Far North we are saying that rape is a complex crime and that the law should reflect those complexities. Perhaps one of the reasons that this has not been done is because rape has traditionally been regarded as partially the fault of the victim. Having rejected that concept we can discuss the penalties for the crime at every level, from a single 'date' rape to violent serial rapists.

So you're saying lighter sentencing would encourage the victims to be less upset and to regard it more as 'bad sex'.
And once this becomes the generally accepted idea, people wouldn't be so scared of rape or so distressed if it happens to them?

I think you have an interesting point there trisher . The more that the stigma attached to being raped is reduced the better.
If we are no longer encouraged to think that people are "soiled" or "ruined" by being raped maybe the mental trauma could be reduced.

A very long or life sentence for the rapist does sort of encourage the idea that if someone has been raped their life is over.

However, we don't want to go back to the days of Judge Pickles, and give longer sentences for burglary than for rape.

I suppose what is being proposed is something like the difference between GBH and ABH, so the crime would depend upon the physical damage caused. And perhaps its not a bad idea to rethink rape as a crime and the sentencing involved. The stigma that once was involved has been greatly reduced but still remains to some extent and an open discussion might help to reduce it even more.

Bridgeit, it remains very difficulult to prosecute any rape cases, never mind those within marriage/long term relationships.
I suppose the new coercive control act may help women in the situation I'm thinking of. "keeping your man sweet"shouldn't involve repeatedly having sex you don't want, or types of sex you don't want.

Sorry but I’ve never rated GG - always thought to her publicity meant everything.

I suppose Iam64 it would be the fact that it had been taken to court . Therefore would not be confused with a woman ‘ being reluctantly obliging.
Also let’s not forget that there are many woman who are happy to ‘ keep their man sweet’ and benifit from his ‘good humour! It’s a funny old world , what ever floats your boat I suppose ,but there should be no way a woman is ever forced against her will in any relationship.

How would the courts identify non violent rape? Psychological terror in a long term relationship may lead to a the individual being terrorised (often a woman) being said to have consented.

I'd agree with smaller level of proof, but not lower sentences.

It's actually an interesting argument, that non-violent rape should receive lower sentences and require a smaller level of proof, and violent rape should be judged on the level of violence and sentencing made accordingly. It would provide some sort of solution to the increasing problem of date-rape where there is some sort of debate about if consent was given. Not the crackpot idea presented in the headlines but something to think about.

it is now Iam64 quite rightly so

Rape within marriage wasnt seen as a crime.

Sex is supposed to be a loving act.

Any man who forces sex, in a relationship or not, is motivated by anything from plain selfishness to violent hatred.

Not only the physical act, but awareness of the motivation behind it, will contribute to a woman's reaction.

So someone who "accommodates" her partner may be extremely distressed by his lack of care for her and, possibly, her awareness of feeling trapped in that relationship.

Exactly Oldwoman70.

She said she didn't report her rape because she "wasn't angry enough" - OK that was her reaction to it but just because she experienced a rape does not make her an expert on how other women would react.

I have had cancer, but that does not make me an expert on how others who have cancer will deal with it.

There are rapes where a stranger attacks a woman, there are rapes where a partner forces his partner to have intercourse. What about Bridgeit's point about women who 'accommodate' their partner. Some women will resist, resist, resist and eventually give in to avoid a violent row, a violent rape, or waking sleeping children. That scenario is likely to be accompanied by a woman lying there weeping. That must be rape, rather than simply ' bad sex'.

That does not sound like a comment any feminist would make - it's outrageous. Rape is an act of extreme sexual aggression - to trivialise it like this is unpardonable.

Ahh thanks Farnorth, I will look it up , explains a lot!

Sure enough there's a book coming out.
'Greer’s book On Rape, which sets out her argument, will be published in September.'

The assorted quotes I saw don't seem to match up to a coherent view.

Being forced to have sex with a partner is obviously rape.
But if a woman Chooses to shall I say ‘accommodate her partner’ then I cannot equate that with rape.

On MN there are regular posts where the OP isnt sure whether they experienced rape or bad sex

Yes. Its rape.
But its not rape that tends to end in conviction
And its rape that victims often justify as bad sex.

Now that we're recignising date/relationship rape more.... it does beg the question re what gets done about it when the justice system is more set up for violent stranger rape?