Travellers taking over recreation ground

Travellers have cost the London Boroughs a fortune. They leave an awful mess behind. They don't pay rates and cause a great deal of disruption.

It's amazing how punitive some authorities can be about virtually bugger all. A workman was recently issued with a fine for gathering up his debris crisp packets and the like which he had in a bag in his own van ready to put into his own dustbin, but aaah it wasn't in an "approved waste bag" which it should have been allegedly, and he got done for that Crap in the local children's sandpit though, no worries!

Living in inner-city London it's not something that affects me - just once in the past 20 years.

But I do know and have experience of problems elsewhere. What I can't understand is why any troublesome element of the Travelling community get away with so much. Every day, builders, restaurants etc are fined for fly-tipping and councils have fly-tipping hotlines. However when travelling groups have illegally camped and caused problems, and eventually the police move them on, they are allowed to leave such a mess!

What is with all the sh*t? I understand if you have no facilities you might have to go in a field, but FFS do it on newspaper and put it in the bin.

I like to parade my liberal credentials but there are just some situations that need to be addressed as they have a direct physical impact on other people.

That was your fault Jalima, you expected the worst and that's what you got. Should have handed them the shears with a smiley face and an affable "would you mind giving the hedge a trim?" and hey ho love and peace all round. The next time they passed through they'd have probably knocked you up a loft extension for not much more than a cup of tea and couple of ginger nuts, as Eddie Izzard likes to say "the possibilities could have been endless". Missed opportunities

I will say I am a very easy going,tolerant person and it takes an awful lot to rile me
That surely must be ironic as those facts have not been apparent to other Gransnetters!


(thank you for the giggle, paddyann, love it!!)

This was happening when we lived in that area many years ago Terribull, on a spare piece of land next to the primary school. The mess was indescribable and quite distressing for the children - urinating and defecating in the hedge in between.
I agree that not all travellers are like that, because there was another group who were quite different who lived happily not far away and their children attended the school along with mine.

What really pisses me off is when people complain about genuine social problems, other people virtue signal about how non judgemental they are.

I see this from a slightly different perspective. My OHs father was from a traveller family.
My OH (and some of his siblings) were born in a caravan. His mother is not a traveller and since my OH was a small child they lived in houses.
The old style travellers are not like the ones who are all over the news. But the old travellers and I assume the ones now have a bias against what they call Irish Tinkers who they reckon are thieves and pests.
The old style travellers are very proud of the fact they are clean and work for their money.
I also live in Surrey and have had first hand experience of both the good and the bad. As with everything anything good does not make the news.
I for one would not like to have this lot on my doorstep. I had a really bad experience when some of these people parked up on ground next to our local hospital.
paddyann you have obviously been very lucky in your experience but please do not think that is the same for all of us.

paddyann I completely accept your experiences were positive, I completely accept that among the community of travellers there are decent, law abiding citizens, I completely accept that some people want to live a peripatetic lifestyle. I'm not making a judgement about how they live.

It's your modus operandi to post contradictory posts, seemingly, for God knows what reason to discredit the experiences of that person with a remark such as "if you expect the worst that's what you get". the inference presumably being that the residents have brought this all on themselves, from what I understand they didn't expect anything worst or otherwise, just ordinary people going about their everyday lives.

However, I'll suggest to my pal in Thames Ditton that she offers her shears to some of the incomers to trim her hedge, clearly the way ahead to overcoming misunderstandings I'm wondering would a "could you pick up your poo" at the same time be a bridge too far though. Any suggestions as to a tactful way to pose that without further inflaming the situation.

paddyann I am happy your experience of travellers is a positive one. However, have you considered they are preventing a local tax paying gardener work by cutting your hedge (and others). You are a great supporter of the working class yet you could be considered part of the problem by paying someone "under the table". Do they want payment in cash, do they give you a receipt with a permanent address? If not, the chances of their declaring their earnings is quite remote

paddyann it is understandable that you have a tolerant attitude when the travellers near you were tidy and respectful, but I'm sure you can see that you would not feel the same if they left the sort of disgraceful mass that other posters are talking about and which we non-travellers have to pay to clean up; would that all travellers were like those near you...

you do understandTerribull that if tou expect the worst from someone that is often what you get .The travellers who stop here ...100 yards from my front door,cut my hedge every year ,they do it how we want it they bag the waste for us and put it in my OH's car for him to take to the tip .THEY wont take it there because they get charged to take in multiple loads.I have no problem with us taking our own garden waste and them saving cash .Its the old give a dog a bad name thing isn't it?
I will say I am a very easy going,tolerant person and it takes an awful lot to rile me .I wont make life any more difficult for me ..or anyone else than is necessary.Maybe some here could try my way...life is much nicer if you aren't constantly complaining about things .I'm out of this one now.I hope you all have a good day .

What the hell has the reasons for living where I do got anything to do with the situation described? We all have to live somewhere, and whether the neighbourhood anyone lives in is a likely to be place where travellers might pitch up it would seem is quite random., virtually any green space. Other posters have cited numerous incidents across the country where they have been affected by similar events. I've made it perfectly clear that I see there is a distinction between travellers who stay a while and leave without incident and those who seek to abuse the local population and leave a whole lot of mess in their wake that has to be cleared up by others., but if you are lucky enough to fall into the first category how does that negate the problems experienced by those who fall into the second category. Platitudes like "live and let live" when residents are having to deal with a whole gamut of issues from having their children attacked by unruly dogs, human excrement tipped into gardens, the local park a no go area due to racing about on quad bikes, the local Asian shopkeepers being stolen from and racially abused so they have to shut up shop. Making judgements and and snide comments along the lines "what a load of moaners you are" somehow belies that underlying spirit of tolerance and empathy towards those people who have had to deal with such goings on. The whole "live and let live" adage is very selective bestowed towards those who seek to make other people's lives a misery and cynically bogus in some of the contexts it's been used, unless of course you really do think the aforementioned abuses are really OK. Maybe some of you do. Personally I think it's not a good way to treat the environment or those living around you. Bizarre concept I know.

What a nasty sarcastic and personal post, terribull.
Presumably you have reasons for living where you do, despite the dreadful things that go on around you.
Perhaps paddy has simply chosen a more pleasant and tolerant environment and that does not mean a "parallel universe"!
Strange that one person's happiness provokes such misery for another.

Good post Old woman. I agree with you.

I can remember gypsies from my youth, I can't remember them causing problems.

The travellers who are responsible for the theft, damage and mess are not gypsies and should not be mistaken as such. I respect anyone's right to live an alternative lifestyle, all I ask is that they respect my right to live the lifestyle I want and not expect me to pick up the bill for theirs.

....the assumption that any travellers/gypsies will behave badly as many don't.

But unfortunately an awful lot do. Quite simply, if they didn't, there wouldn't be a problem.

pollyperkins - They aren't Romany from what I've heard they are Irish. I take on board what you say about demonising sectors of those societies, particularly when they don't deserve that. However, this is all being played out a few miles away from where I live so I know from people who live there what's going on. Money from tax payers is being spent on evictions and clear ups, money that could be spent in all sorts of more useful and beneficial ways. To behave in such a way, and I'm talking specifically about those who seek to trash an area, and then complain about demonisation by local people, knowing full well that is simply a cynical attempt to misconstrue the facts and deflect from their own appalling behaviour.

No need for personal attacks Terribull! There are obviously different groups of travellers and we have all had different experiences. What annoys me is the assumption that any travellers/gypsies will behave badly as many don't. No-one would condone the sort of behaviour that has been described here, but it isn't always like that. Let's not fall out over it!

Don't worry too much about travelers taking over a field, getting evicted and moving on, any problems will go with them.
DO WORRY about them buying a field, laying down roads and bringing in 20 caravans, they can easily do that over a weekend. It is very difficult or impossible to get them moved in those circumstances, the site will become a no go area for police, it will be the centre for much of the thieving locally.
If anyone doubts the " no go area " PM me and I will take you to 3 sites within 10 miles.

On the other side we have a guy with a couple of ponies and a Barrel Wagon sets up regularly selling wooden carvings, he is not a problem everybody accepts him

Live and let live...….try telling that to the Security officer's family, he will be out of action for some time.

"I'm sorry I can't join your merry little band of complainers"

Paddyann you seem to delight in not only playing devil's advocate but also being deliberately obtuse to gain some sort of one upmanship. Giving examples of how you live in perfect harmony up there in your parallel universe whilst simultaneously berating others whose situation is entirely different to the one you sanctimoniously choose to portray is a frequent feature of how you post. I have no doubt that there are travellers who do not behave badly, don't leave piles of debris behind, don't intimidate the local population, don't ride their cars and quad bikes all over the recreation ground day and night, don't chuck excrement over people's fences, don't steal from local businesses, don't leave piles of debris for others to clear up, however the ones in the OP do. I suppose given your magnanimous disposition that most of us lowly posters could never aspire to, you would be quite happy to have all that on your doorstep. I suppose you'd quell it all by simply bunging any troublemaker some home cooked meals from the ever burgeoning freezer that we hear so much about, until peace and harmony are restored.

We recently had travellers visit our huge Tesco car park, they then entered the store, start trashing, attacked and racially abused the Security officer, put him in hospital, any spare trollies they rammed into parked cars causing further damage, eventually left leaving the Council with a huge clean-up bill,

I like to think I am tolerant too. I knew gypsy children in schools I taught at and I'm afraid they were bullied/ostracised by other children who had heard their parents describe them as scum. It seems to be the last acceptable form of racism.
Of course if behaviour is as described in the OP no-one would want them around but as I said, true Romany are not like that. I agree with a lot of what Paddyann said.

Noone is saying all travellers behave badly but there are some who give them all a bad name. Yes plenty of NIMBYs on here, moaning about all sorts of minor things, but criminal behaviour is worth complaining about surely - and is it wrong to say everyone should live within the law? I’m all for live and let live but I don’t think we should put up with extreme anti social behaviour in our neighbourhood - destroying school fields, thefts and burglary, cruelty to animals etc, We shouldn’t be afraid to complain.