Are pensioners perceived differently now?

Pec's post of yesterday saying a poster comes across as rather smug certainly states a truth to me.
I think many in this thread come across as rather smug.
We are mostly representative of the times we lived and grew up in.
That is what we expected and we got on with it.
Young people today are living in a different world. They will get on with it and will moan to their own children about how hard it was and how easy the younger generation have it ( and how they did it better on less).

It is DEFINITELY harder to be young now!

In relation to setting-up home, which is what most people want to do at some time, I agree 100% with this statement.

Unless they have some sort of inheritance a 20-something on average wage will never be able to buy a whole flat or house (not a shared-ownership scheme) in London. In the late 70s a couple on average wages could buy in all areas of London bar, say Chelsea, Mayfair, etc.

I know of no-one aged 60+ who couldn't have bought a property in their 20s/30s.

Now, even those on £200,000 pa can't do what I did
aged 24 on a nurse's salary in 1978.

I'm sorry you feel like that annsixty you are of course wrong.

There seems to be a group of people who cannot see the positives and always look for the negative. Interesting that only one of my points has been taken up (that most properties have windows), no one has commented on any of the 'good' things I have said about giving things away of Freegle or repairing and reusing things. No comments about the things which are cheaper nowadays like school uniforms.

I make no apology for coming from nothing and making something of my and my family's life or for the hard work and frugality which has given my children good lives. I am pretty sure my GC will work hard and have good lives too. No, everyone doesn't have the capacity to do that but many do and all this talk about how tough it is for youngsters is only going to make them feel there is no point trying. They need encouragement not negativity.

The message that life is hopeless for young people is making some of them be negative. Understanding is helpful but lots of sympathy can make people give up.

Nonnie, Thank you.....I couldn't have said it better myself!

...and it isn't just the amount of sympathy....it's the passive complacency.....When young people (or anybody else) perceive that they no longer have any options in life, they begin to lose hope and initiative. Running out of options can cause most people to give up if they actually believe that. It's the brand of negative thinking that eventually becomes a self fulfilling prophecy and a sure path to failure.

Thanks willa. I do feel that sometimes when I am being constructive some people 'interpret' what I say in a negative way. I think that says more about them than me though.

I feel we should be encouraging them to work hard and teaching them how to be thrifty. We should show them how much they could save by making their own lunch and walking a couple of stops to save on fares. In little ways they could be so much better off.

Ah I see so it's the fault of the people who point out the realities of the situation and of young people for not keeping their spirits up regardless of how bad things get.
It isn't a quesion of things being "hopeless" but of ideals being lost and then blaming the results not on those who deliberately or accidently lost them but on those who are the result of that loss. So a society founded on greed will have no place for the economically inactive be they pensioners, the homeless or any other persons.

I think it's time to move away from a "blame" culture.
Each generation is different, has different problems, issues.

I think, that, in my poor way, was what I was trying to say.
Each generation deals with the situation as it is.

I think it's time to move away from a "blame" culture.

That would happen naturally once people started to act and help each other.

Younger generations will continue to point out the advantages older generations had for as long as older generations continue to absolve themselves of all responsibility and falsely attribute todays problems to young peoples attitudes rather than the societal restrictions currently in place.

"Im allright jack and you would be too if you just did a days work" will continue to provoke a justified backlash

notanan2 with respect, we had to find opportunities and we did work hard, as did our parents and grandparents.
Please tell me why the young of today should be treated any different?

House prices have gone up but so have wages. Interest rates are at the lowest they have been for years, even after taking into consideration the recent rise.

sigh
Nobody said that we didn't work hard for what we have. We worked for it but it was achievable for the average person rather than the exception.

However the routes have changed. A young person today couldnt just do what we did and get the same results we had.

Why are people so reluctant to accept that hard work is only half the story? I worked hard AND I was lucky to start out when I did. I don't find that hard to admit so don't understand others reluctance.

I would NOT want to be starting out today, that is for damn sure.

I think the opportunities are different now.

There are bloggers, Utubers and various other internet based jobs which offer an extremely good income without ever having to leave their bedroom.

The contrast in the rise between the 2 GG13
house prices have surged at the same time as young people’s incomes have faltered. Average house prices rose 152 per cent in the 20 years to 2015-16, while net family income for 25-34-year-olds only grew by 22 per cent
An interesting article if you want to know more.
www.ft.com/content/81343d9e-187b-11e8-9e9c-25c814761640

There are bloggers, Utubers and various other internet based jobs which offer an extremely good income without ever having to leave their bedroom.

Seriously? Its as reliable a career path as doing the lottery!

Only a tiny tiny fraction of youtubers/bloggers make an income that fully supports them. They are the pop stars of yesteryear. Its not a viable "opportunity" for your average youth

nonnie I have used freecycle type sites regularly for years to give & to receive, I shop & donate in charity shops. I helped to organise a Green Heart event to rise awareness about sustainability...it is not that may of us on here are not aware of being careful/frugal etc. etc. but that our experience and perspective on younger people and current opportunities etc. differs from yours.
There have always been folk who expect everything on a plate , to get through life with little hard work, takers rather than givers.

My view is that even those who work hard and are careful with their income face tougher times today than I did as a 20 something ..when I was married with a child and a mortgage.

When we rented it was a stop gap, enabling us to save money. Nowadays rents are equivalent or higher than mortgages and with little security of tenure .

Internet jobs are the way forward, coding is being taught in Primary Schools.
Tablets are provided in Senior Schools for class/homework.
Robotics are being used in manufacturing.

Surely we (you) have to admit that our generation has contributed to the formation of today's society, its ills and its benefits.
eg. Did you vote for a government that encouraged the sale of council housing but did not allow councils to spend the funds on replacement homes?
How did you feel about the statements that said "There is no such thing as society" or "Bring back Victorian values" ?
Were you pleased to discover that your family would benefit from the change in the rules on inheritance tax?
All of your opinions (and votes) went to forming the society in which we (and our younger generations) live and survive or struggle.
And since our generation has had more opportunities to vote and influence the way society has developed, our generation must look at our degrees of responsibility.
It's not all about how hard we worked or how high our mortgage rates were in the 70's.

I don't think there is the abundance if entry level tech jobs up for grabs that you seem to imagine.

I know people in tech and its not that lucrative even with a decent portfolio and experience, most have several feathers in their hat because income from their digital work isn't enough.

There are relatively few people who got rich doing tech jobs. My DH works in a field where he has to utilise/employ techy types from time to time (he is not directly in tech but in a field that uses it) and its very much a buyers market with tech workers scrambling for jobs. He regularly turns them down rather than the other way round

I do not blame my forebears for their voting/attitudes/behaviour.
I am only going to repeat what has previously been posted, in as much as each generation has different hurdles to overcome.
Each generation has different opportunities.

with you there mcem

I do not blame my forebears for their voting/attitudes/behaviour.

By the same token do you also not attribute any good things we have to prior generations? Sanitation? Peace? Rights? Engineering? Medicine?

You can't seriously think that the lives of the young aren't directly influenced by the choices of their predecessors?

GrannyGravy I think we do not have to blame forebears as the decisions people, alive now, contributed to through our democratic process has had consequences and will do into the future. We cannot turn back the clock but we can use the past to inform the future.... and we have chances to change approaches/values and attitudes.

The truth is that the generation born at the turn of the last century did a hell of a lot to make the next generations lived better.... but the generations that followed benefited from the upwards spiral set in motion by their parents and grandparents but at some point stopped caring about the legacies THEY would leave for the future generations (outside of maybe their immediate families in some cases)

The reason why the situation has developed is not helped by the likes of Vince Cable supporting the idea that the 65 plus contingent has selfishly robbed the youth of prospects. This is a man who has accrued homes at the expense of the taxpayer, has accrued pensions more beneficial and favourable than any others could have accrued. THE longer term result of this sort of propaganda wiil be that pensioners become less benevolent, realising that they actually earned their entitlement rather than relying on the hard work of others.
When you have earned something you appreciate and look after it, but whenit is bestowed you take it for granted.

But we were not the older generation in the 70s! But I do agree it is harder for those ,who have not had to live without certain modern benefits, to fully appreciate how hard won they are and what life was like for many before they were universal.