University degrees: what’s the difference?

Total agreement from me Grandma70. One of mine did what is sometimes called a useless degree. She is creative, artistic rather than academic. Bad parent that I am I encouraged her year out and advised her to follow her bliss. She did performance drama and multi media at a university seen as excellent fir its arts degrees. She’s teaching primary school so doing ‘useful’ work where the skills learned at uni are very useful ?. Plus she had a good time and learned so many life skills during what turned into five years of study

I did not go to university at 18 but a Teacher Training College. We had lectures & seminars on philosophy & history of education as well as pedagogy. In addition we had to study a 'curriculum' course too. I studied Dance & Drama This had to be both at our own academic level as well as to learn how to deliver it as a curriculum subject in school. It was three years of interesting academic work as well as practical as we had to have so many weeks in the classroom too. We also grew up! In my case I was in London, in digs. Independence, managing budgets laundry etc. etc. plus negotiating relationships, sharing accommodation, work schedules and so on are all part of HE life and equally important, imo to the academic side.

The broadening of HE, to include degrees in less traditional university subjects has, for some, de-valued degrees.
This all harps back to our incredibly snobby attitude to academic ability vs practical ability. I do believe it is good to study, at the highest levels we are capable of, just for the pleasure of learning and not solely to gain employment though of course that is useful! We need all sorts of people, with all kinds of abilities, to make the world go round. I know some wonderfully useful people who left school at 16 but have made a huge contribution to society and some very useless twazzocks with doctorates! Judge not on the qualification but on the the actions and application! Sadly stupid computerised systems of recruitment are probably created by the twazzocks!

what a wonderful word!

twazzocks

Grannybeek Sorry, I can't entirely agree with your comment, maybe a wee bit too general.

"""Tangentially, I always found it interesting that GCSE grades were a more accurate indicator than A level grades of how well a student would do at university."""

My dd did just 'ok' at GCSE grade and once she did a successful resit on her English went on to do her A levels where she got 4 at top notch.

She finished her Primary Degree at First Place in her year.

It's a pity that we seem to have lost all the day release and evening classes. Back in the 60s my friend had no chance of going to University as her mother was a widow and they needed her working. She did A Levels and got a job in a laboratory with a large pharmaceutical company. Over the years she added to her qualifications at evening classes and ended up in a very high managerial position. This doesn't seem to happen nowadays.

I did day release and evening classes for years too.

There are some opportunities, Deedaa, for school leavers to gain apprenticeships with day release to take a degree followed by further qualifications. One of my DC did a few years ago and a younger member of the family is doing that now but these seem to be few and far between unfortunately.

I remember the 'sandwich' courses too - time spent in industry and time spent in Technology Colleges, producing well-qualified engineers, computer scientists etc. A pity because our country needs more engineers.

DH pratted about at school..he blames me as a distraction from his A levels. He re-took them all in a year by correspondence course whilst working. He assed with flying colours!

Passing exams has become the be all and end all. I once had a useless student teacher in my school. I did not want to pass her as she was an ineffective teacher and refused to listen to advice from excellent staff. However the college were furious because her course work and end of year exams had her on course for a first! I was furious to see she was awarded a first despite her poor practical ability in a classroom. I knew as she graduated at the same time as my DD2!

I would advise applying for doing an internship. Although you may not get paid and only get expenses you gain experience. Failing that write to a company you are interested in to ask for work experience. My daughter asked for work experience during the 2nd year of her degree. She was offered a 6 month internship and at the end of it her supervisor's job became vacant. She was asked to fill the vacancy while they recruited and then after interviewing asked her to apply as she had impressed them more than any of the candidates. She still had a year to go on her degree but she worked part time during her final year. With the hours of work as well as her studies she was devastated to only get a 3rd class degree, but she had a graduate level job which became full time at the end of her final year of university. I tried to reassure her that by the time she applied for her next job no one would care about the grade. In the end she stayed with the company for 6 years, moving departments and taking 2 maternity cover promotions after which she moved on. Since then she has been headhunted for her current job. At the time she got that job she had been approached by more than one organisation. If you are good at what you do starting as an intern may well get you where you want to go.

I don't know much about internships but would they have a minimum degree level if they were offering to post grads?

Some of these posts have been rather dampening. To return to the OP, after your niece has found a job (which I'm sure she'll do), Vicky, and succeeded at it, no one will care what class degree she got. The questions will focus on what she studied and where, and Russell group will win out over local college every time.

Am I right saying that the prime minister graduated with a 2:2?

Sorry winter I didn't mean to dampen, I just think she has to be realistic.

Not sure using TM as an example will cut it though

Very true! (to Nonnie)

No, Theresa May didn’t get a 2.2. She got a 2nd class BA from Oxford, and at that date (1974) the second class degree was not split into two parts as it is now.

OK, thanks and apols.

I've told this story many times - my husband left school at 14.
He was no academic, dyslexic etc, but had other aptitudes and skills. He tried a few things (you could in those days) and trained as a TV engineer. He eventually started a business which expanded and was successful. He did work very long hours.
He always earned much more than me with my degree and postgrad. training.

I know of many people whose careers have been in entirely different fields than that of their first degrees.

I think one essential in this day and age is to be adaptable.

Fennel I know of several successful people who loathed school and left as soon as they could - to go on to very successful careers, sometimes gaining good qualifications or even degrees on the way and sometimes not.

My DD2s partner is a hard worker & great financial provider! He quit school as soon as he could without any qualifications and took any work he could. He has now been running his own successful business for several years. The lovely home they own is now mortgage free & whilst not extravagant they can live comfortably. He still struggles with reading and writing but his maths & practical and creative skills are very good. Academic qualification is not always a key to earning / work. So much is about attitude and aptitude!

Exactly, Pecs.
Someone needs to promote this idea, that there are alternatives to degrees for a career.
Apprenticeships , setting up a business, or both together. It does involve growing up quickly and working hard.
I somethimes think the raising of the school leaving age in the '90s and later encouraging more young people to go to University was a ploy to keep the unemployment figures down.
Take the young off the streets and more jobs for Uni lecturers.

Degrees have never been gateways into jobs. I did my degree in the 1960s, when Firsts were as rare as hens teeth, but I still knew graduates who had difficulty getting jobs or getting them in the fields they wanted. What is needed is not just the degree but the personality and character that shows you will work hard, take responsibility and learn fast. Interview skills are also essential. If you know you do not interview well, then get some coaching or attend a class.

In the 1980s I was employing staff and I was really shocked by how ignorant and poorly educated some of the graduates I interviewed were. I do not think that has changed.

On balance it is better to have a 2.2 from a Russell Group University than a 2.1 from a less well regarded university. It also depends on the subject. A degree in Physics from one university will be highly rated, a degree in the same subject from another will not.

All so true, M0nica.

No degree, of any level or from any uni, is much use outside academia unless you have a bit of oomph about you! You have to be pro active , interesting & intersted & a good coomunicator to optimise your prospects! My brother used to recruit for a Chancery Lane law firm. He was,always s hocked atvthe lack of common sense plus sense of entitlement of many applicants. Also often disappointet that whilst many better " qualified" could quote legal precedents & laws few had much clue on application or use!

Sorry posting on phone in a car! Typos correspond with potholes!

sued and lemongrove

You are so wrong. Informed young people will go to the course with the best teachers in their particular subject or specialty. Oxbridge still has a hold (I went to one of them and my husband to the other) but there is so much choice now and in both science and arts there are university courses which are much better for a different end.

And firsts have gone up in some Oxbridge colleges rather more than one would expect, just as anywhere.

As for your niece OP - I would suggest she targets firms she wants to work for and applies whether they're advertising or not. Does her research on what they're looking to in the future and whether she can contribute. Or retrains in the city or wherever they are looking for science graduates who can do analysis etc. Or goes back for an MSc - but hard with a 2.2. Army or airforce?

Is the college relevant? Degrees are awarded by the relevant department of the university, not by the college. Are there really more firsts in some colleges than others? (Perhaps the ones that attract the brighter students.)