This "pro women" thing?

I don't care who does the job but I want it done well so I'm absolutely against positive discrimination of all kinds.

Lovely stories about people toasting and talking to absent loved ones ❤️.

I have mixed feelings about quotas, particularly when people can identify into them. In the Arts (I am being deliberately vague here) a lot of funding comes from sources who are keen to support minorities. On the face of it that's fair enough, as by its very nature the Arts are dominated by those who can afford to live on very little, at least unless/until they become established, so having categories for other groups seems sensible, and separate groups for (eg) women seems sensible. But it doesn't stop with sex, it moves into 'gender', social class, race, area of residence, sexuality, disability, neuro-typicality and so on, and the more boxes you tick the better the chance of getting funding. Someone who claims to be in all the relevant categories (with the 'right' qualifiers), can definitely use it to their advantage, and I know, personally, people who do just that. Nobody can realistically check whether someone is bisexual (and why does it matter?), or working class, or neurodivergent, or many of the other categories - and I'm not accusing anyone of lying as such; but when it's supposed to be about talent, and getting the best for the audiences and being a fair contest, then, as I say, I have mixed feelings.

Another problem is that (up to a point because of the above) there will always be those who insist that people have got jobs/funding because of 'playing a card', so sexism and racism are perpetuated by actions intended to prevent them. I'm sure we've all heard people complain that they (or their friends and family) have lost out to someone of colour, or to a woman (or whatever), simply because whatever it was was always going to go to a candidate in a minority group. Of course that's a sexist or racist attitude, but when it's disguised as being supportive of loved ones it goes under the radar whilst keeping the 'race/sex card' narrative going, so I have mixed feelings from that side of the fence, too.

I guess the bottom line is that underlying sexism and racism are so internalised for some that nothing is likely to change their attitudes.

I have! Seen a woman down the sewers. On TV. She is a council vermin and rat catcher. Big warm lady, she finds it gives her great pleasure helping people out who feel helpless and distressed with their problem.

A lot of her work is not below ground or only in the water pipes/access from ground level as its a small town, not the Victorian sewers of London.

Stats in UK:
4.5% of sewage disposal workers are women and 95.5% of sewage disposal workers are men.

Sewage worker
www.google.com/search?client=safari&rls=en&q=woman+working+in+sewers&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8#fpstate=ive&vld=cid:6c3c496e,vid:frQUOfWwkfU

EllanVannin

Haven't seen any women going down the sewers-------yet !!

A job which I suspect few would choose to do.

How many men do you think say, "oh, I must get a job working in the sewer" every day?

So hardly surprising that women don't choose to do it. Neither do most men...

Glorianny

MawtheMerrier

Season's Greetings to Phoenix her memory lingers on

No doubt it was kindly meant, but how can you send Seasons Greetings someone who has been dead for 15 months?

The same way you can pray for them, raise a glass to them, talk to them or do any of the other things people do to remember those who have died.
My mum said "Good morning" and "good night" to my dad for nearly 20 years after he died.

I am happy to remember fondly, raise a glass to their memory and -yes- I do talk to Paw every day when the dog and I walk up to the churchyard, but I don’t offer Seasons Greetings and for anybody else to do so, I would find hurtful.

Sorry, did not realise this post so old and the lovely Phoenix no longer here.

Agree with Phoenix. Why just to tick a box should you not get the best person for the job.

paddyann

There aren't equal opportunities for women in any field.Women in general have to work harder and smarter and be BETTER than all the men surrounding them to get anywhere .I can understand why some are vocal about hoping a woman gets the job or the award where the odds are so unfairly stacked against us .Positive discimination is something different..of course the job should go to the best PERSON but often employers ask loaded questions and then make the decision against the woman being interviewed.Surely you've come across the "you're recently married will you be thinking about babies" type of question...they dont ask any man that !

Thank goodness to read a post that talks as if we were in 2022 not 1992. Goodness, people hostile to a modest level of positive discrimination were complaining about "token women" being inadequate in their jobs back then!

Sometimes I think women can be the worst critics of each other.

It does depend on the field of work of course as to how equal things really are.

But why shouldn't thee be as many female sports commentators as men? (there aren't - you been watching the mens World Cup and Gary Lineker's little discussion groups). There are some superb female sports commentators if you listen out..
... and as for criticising women being sports commentators because of one thing said woman said one bloke didnt like we'd be here a load of men would be moaning all night.

Yammy
Our promise is to meet up with friends we haven't seen for a long time, due to Covid and other reasons.

🤞 we all make it.

I think it would be more appropriate at New Year when we reflect and think of all our friends and family who have sadly died. I admit I find Auld Lang Syn an absolute tear-jerker.

I cried last week when writing Christmas cards so many couples crossed out and so many I had to be careful to put the woman's name on only. We had one man cousin whose wife has died.
I suppose we are reaching that time in our lives when these things do happen more frequently, it does make you reflect on your own mortality.
As my late FIL always said, "Enjoy it while you can you can't take it with you".

MawtheMerrier

^Season's Greetings to Phoenix her memory lingers on^

No doubt it was kindly meant, but how can you send Seasons Greetings someone who has been dead for 15 months?

The same way you can pray for them, raise a glass to them, talk to them or do any of the other things people do to remember those who have died.
My mum said "Good morning" and "good night" to my dad for nearly 20 years after he died.

Season's Greetings to Phoenix her memory lingers on

No doubt it was kindly meant, but how can you send Seasons Greetings someone who has been dead for 15 months?

What a shock to see Phoenix name at the top of this. Dear Phoenix what joy she brought to us all.

Yes there has been a lot of discrimination in the past and it is still going on but any form of discrimination always causes more discrimination as it is used to justify it. This can either be they discriminate against us so we can discriminate against them or unconscious bias by dividing the world into us and them and only thinking about us. You can not solve discrimination by discriminating.
Two wrongs do not make a right.

silverlining48

That’s where my gammon is Callistemon. Not sure if I shoukd cut it in half. ?

I gave away my very large cooking pot because it was too heavy, I could barely lift it even without the gammon in it.

I've just found this. But I do have a different perspective. My DS has been involved in instances where women and ethnic minorities have been favoured. I was at first quite annoyed at this, but he is quite philosophical and relaxed about it. He recognises the area he works in has less women and black or mixed race people working in it and he supports them being advanced. He says some of the work chosen is excellent. He does however have real problems with those who have connections already working in the field who sometimes get advancement and whose work is (in his words) crap. It is sometime still who you know. It has quite changed my thinking on the subject. (The boy was raised to recognise inequality when he saw it!!!)

Season's Greetings to Phoenix her memory lingers on.

But in the past, I can so well remember my husband and his problems with employment. He had MS, which meant he used a wheelchair. He had both a professional qualification and an MA in his profession, which was done sitting behind a desk

Yes he found it impossible to get a job in the 1980's on a sort of strange 'Does he take sugar?' basis. No-one not having use of their legs could possibly be knowledgeable enough to be a Company Secretary!!! Even those who did not have this attitude worried about (a) having to make some sort of adaptations at the place of work for a wheelchair or ( in the case of one very large, international company), their pension scheme would not admit him as he had MS, even with a letter from his OWN consultant saying that his other health was fine. He is still alive at the age of 81 years!!!!

So, Yes, I welcome some sort of postive discrimination at times.

Yes, I had a double-take too, when I saw Phoenix's name. She is still missed!

That’s where my gammon is Callistemon. Not sure if I shoukd cut it in half. ?

Oh! Mine, too, Cali

silverlining48

The post was started by Phoenix.

Yes, my stomach gave a lurch.

The gammon is in the fridge, waiting for a large enough pot.

Positive discrimination in favour of women and ethic minorities happens in many areas not least parliament, also its obvious in local authority, advertising and media companies. Positive gender selection will be next for sure, the ability or qualification criteria went out of the window ages ago, thankfully women do rather well in most areas, despite not getting pay equality

I noticed the date too, Miss cursing the gammon with Phoenix

The post was started by Phoenix.

Drat - didn't notice!