AIBU? - Out with a child with chickenpox

In the late 70’s there was an outbreak of CP in London and a particularly vicious form on Canvey Island. My friend’s 3 year old caught it, she also had the pustules in her mouth and vagina, and so did her nursery friends. A young mother on my friend’s Canvey estate also caught it and was very ill. As she got better she sat in her armchair to watch television, and got up to change the channel (no remotes then!) She didn’t make it back across the room, but collapsed and died. The virus also causes shingles in older people - I’ve made sure I had my injection!

To be honest sarahanew I thought everyone knew the risks to pregnant women at least , same as measles. Maybe it should be publicised more .

I agree with you, but maybe she is ignorant of the fact of how serious it can be

Despite my mum’s best efforts , out of 4 children I didn’t catch any of the childhood illnesses that my brothers and sisters did.

At the age of 31 I caught it from my children and I can honestly say I have NEVER been so ill in my whole life , both before and after. I truly thought I was dying !!

I would be horrified to find someone bringing a contagious child out to a public area. I wouldn’t wish adult chicken pox on anyone.

Let’s be honest it’s only for a short period of quarantine so why bring the child out at all?

Mawbroon what difference does it make if the OP has had c/pox?

Shalene777 Oh Shalene! I should have said before! I was heart-broken when I read how you lost your baby at that late stage of pregnancy! I had a late miscarriage at about 23 weeks. I still think of it a lot. The circumstances of losing your baby are so terrible. I hope and pray you are able to live happily now and do not feel the grief so badly. I had a friend who told me that these little babies carry on growing in Heaven. She was entirely convinced she had been there and seen them. I would like to think that their little souls are safe and in a better place.
Lots of love, Elle

Mawbroonsback
I didn’t miss it! I haven’t misunderstood anything you have said. I have quoted the facts which you appear to have either missed, ignored or thought you knew better!

I will leave you alone in your bubble!

Tillybelle you are so right in what you say. I hate posters who take away from the original post, by pooh poohing it and making sarcastic remarks, without any real knowledge base other than their own tainted views!! It certainly leaves me annoyed and frustrated with some posters, who appear to be unable to see past themselves, even when their error is pointed out. Perhaps best to leave them to it, without rising to the challenge!
It is best to concentrate on the positives that these threads bring with their, sometimes, invaluable comments.

Pat1949. Very good point! It certainly is not "just pregnant women." (Was it a fair guess, you probably are not pregnant at this time?)

I do hope your health will improve a lot, you can avoid all the infectious blighters and you will soon be feeling much better.

MawBroonsback

I misunderstood nothing about what you wrote.

I quoted from the CDC webpage: "Chickenpox Parties"—Don't Take the Chance"

My reference had nothing to do with anything you said.

Regarding the comments:

"*Oh here we go again*, bring out the handbell and intone “*Unclean unclean*”"

Is this level of sarcasm necessary? It pours such acid into our discussion and its vituperative tone cuts the discussion,
which otherwise is very civilised, to pieces. The rest of us are behaving normally, being respectful and helpfully passing information to each other. Then suddenly this nasty assault swerves into the thread.

If people come here just to be nasty or sound clever or to pour scorn on people regarding what they wrote in the initial post, may I ask that their comments be ignored? It is not in the spirit of GransNet. Also by making such forceful statements people might think they know more than they do. This denunciating jibe was followed by wrong information which could mislead people.

This is a good topic and such a helpful discussion. There are many sides to it. I for one am so grateful to fizzers for raising it. My gratitude also goes to those who explained about the direction of transfer between Ch Pox and Shingles.

I do not usually read posts that start with the proclamation of a venomous diatribe. They usually come from people with nothing of interest to add to the topic. I noted that from this announcement onwards people had to defend themselves instead of being able to talk to each other openly. This kind sarcastic and personal criticism makes us feel threatened and stifles good communication.

I am so glad that many people have been able to carry on and contribute.

I reiterate that I think it was thoughtless to take a child that is infectious to a public place, both for the sake of the sick child who should have had the peace and quiet of home and for the public who should not have to worry about being exposed to the highly contagious virus the child has. This virus is much more contagious than MawBroon would have us believe.
I remember that when my sister and I caught ChPox a child further up our road developed it too and had to miss being a Bride's Maid. So it is not always about health concerns that people try to avoid the disease.

Add comment | Report | Private message MawBroonsback Sat 01-Jun-19 11:40:20
I take your point Chucky I suppose I had in mind that there are many many more pregnant women around especially in the social circle of young mums whose child may have chickenpox than those on immunosuppressants. Reproof accepted.

Perhaps you missed this chucky ?

If I may add, my comment about “chickenpox parties” referred to our mothers generation, not the present day or even when our children were young.
I fear Tillybelle may have misunderstood that too.

People can be extremely ill with chickenpox, shingles is really painful, but as another post said chickenpox can be a killer if your immune system is down. I’m on steroids at the moment with strict medical instructions not to come into contact with anyone with the disease. Well how are you supposed to avoid when irresponsible people are taking chickenpox victims out and about. No you’re not being unreasonable.

MawBroonsback “What makes you think you do know more than anybody else or that your knowledge is more “up to date”?

The fact that I have just quoted current NICE Guidelines!
If you have any medical background at all you will know the importance of these Guidelines and how much respect is attached to them! Please tell me where more up to date guidelines may be accessed???

You have clearly stated - “The only group you need to keep a child with chickenpox away from is pregnant women.”
WRONG - FACT

You have also WRONGLY implied that there is no risk in contact with Chickenpox - “Oh here we go again, bring out the handbell and intone “Unclean, unclean”

I have not criticised you for walking round a park with a child in a buggy!

The comments you made were in response to someone meeting up for coffee, in a public cafe or restaurant which I do criticise you for!!*

I used to respect you as a “Gransnetter of some standing.”
Everyone can be wrong, but to refuse to accept you are wrong when proved to be, does not command respect.

agnurse. Thank you to you also!!

DoraMarr. Many thanks! I am learning! You can't catch shingles from chicken pox!! What a relief! I was always told the opposite! Thank you!
Also there is a "shingles aware" programme in the UK and you may be eligible for a shingles vaccine if you are over 70. See;
www.shinglesaware.co.uk/patients/information-for-people-in-england.xhtml

No, we cannot go around being scared of germs BUT a bit of common sense and old fashioned good manners should come into play. Taking a child with CP into a public café is silly and selfish of the adult in charge. Sometimes you just have to cancel and stay at home, yes its annoying but as a society we should have a care for the other people around.
The whole scenario reminds me of the time I ran a Pre School and a parent would turn up with a bleary eyed child who had obviously been up half the night saying 'he wanted to come'. On further investigation you find the poor little thing had been sick half the night or worse.
All that was really happening was the parent needed rid of the child and you were 'It'.
Once we had firm rules from Social Services (with whom we had to be registered) we could quote chapter and verse, smile apologetically and just say NO! I got thoroughly sick of being seen as the bad guy for turning these children away so having it all in writing was a blessing. Its not a case of being superior (as some saw it) or being over cautious....if there are general guidelines demanded by the organisations that sanctioned our group (and my job) then I had to abide by them.
We cant all go around being totally selfish - its about thinking of other people and living our lives as we want but also bearing in mind other people should have the same rights we have.

jura2 I love that! He's not an old wife!!

A bit off the subject - sorry - I took my (then) two daughters to Hever Castle. My smaller one aged about 6 had nicely dried and crusted - hence not infectious - ugly blobs of chicken pox scabs all over her face, arms, all bits of skin on show. Every time we went into a new room it would suddenly empty!!
Lesson: to get a place to yourself take a child with crusty scabs on them with you!

DoraMarr. You make the very wise point that we can't go about being scared of germs, especially in this case that Chicken Pox is contagious two days before the rash. Usually at this stage though the person feels ill and has a runny nose etc.

Having accepted that we are not unduly frightened of germs and that we do live normal lives, the point the OP fizzers makes is:

he had full blown chickenpox - had only been diagnosed with it yesterday. and she said -
I don't need to be developing shingles.

In this case, the one we are talking about, (not about walking round a park with a child in a buggy,) but
meeting up for coffee,
so in a public café or restaurant,
I am in complete agreement with fizzers.

I think her sister and BIL were extremely thoughtless to say the least. Had I seen this child I would have left the café. I get shingles. It is extremely painful, makes me very ill and on top of the other disabilities I have, it makes me unable to cope as I live alone. I am just one person this child's infectious state could have a bad effect upon. I know there are many others. I said they were thoughtless, but I would add, extremely selfish and thick-skinned. I would also have thought the poor child would have been better off at home. I remember having chicken pox at the same time as my older sister. We were very poorly. I remember lying on the sofa downstairs in my nighty and Brown Owl bringing us oranges! I remember feeling too ill to get off the sofa.

I think not giving the CP vaccine routinely is being done for cost reasons. Not many people know it can be done privately. I’ve seen it advertised in some pharmacies.

Back to OP- about a child taken into a busy café, touching surfaces where food is served/eaten ... not in a large park, isolated from rest of population.

OH's advice, after 50 years qualified as Medic- says children should be kept separate until spots have crusted over, in busy public places. And he is not an 'old wife' ;)

Chucky. Many thanks.

grandtanteJE65. I am so sorry to hear that bad news - to hear that measles is back. I am particularly upset by it being in Denmark as my knowledge of your country gives me great respect for the well educated and responsible attitude of the Danes. Measles is very nasty.

DoraMarr I notice you point out that “CDC is the US department of health- not the UK.” Their guidance was very helpfully posted by Tillybelle.

However, I am unaware if you know that CDC guidelines on this topic are referred to as relevant to us in our very important NICE Guidelines. See my previous post.

Maw, Accept that you have been wrong and given out poor advice, a much better trait than continuing to try to push your flawed ideals

I have not given advice.
My “ideals”, whatever you may think they are, are my own business.
What makes you think you do know more than anybody else or that your knowledge is more “up to date”?
And finally, what is your objection to my taking a 15 month old toddler grandson round a large park in a buggy with, as it happened a muslin draped over the hood to protect him from the sun, and nowhere near anybody else ? ?
Everyone’s an expert it seems