AIBU to mention scrotum-waxing?

That's a very good point, MaizieD.

I believe the process for gender recognition can be very lengthy, including long waiting times.
Campaigning for that time to be made shorter would be far more sensible than campaigning for self-id with no checks other than trusting the individual not to lie.

Miranda Yardley, Debbie Hayton and Kristina Harrison are transwomen who have spoken out about the dangers of self-id.
Anyone should be able to find out what they say, with our friend Google (or other search engine).

^ I don't think it needs to be stated that all transwomen are the same, here are two who are clearly very different^.

In view of what I said earlier, about legislating against risk, I think that transwomen have something of a duty to be sensitive to the feelings of natal women. Surely their 'feeling/belief' that they are women should indicate that they too, should be aware of what just about every natal woman knows; that men can be devious, predatory and regard women as mere objects for their use. I feel they shouldn't want to risk women and girls being open to abuse by rogue 'transwomen'. And so should accept that there things like SID which they just cannot safely attain.

Miranda Yardley a transwoman herself, has written about the individual under discussion and their questionable behaviour around young girls and their sinister preoccupation with periods and sanitary wear. MY deems this person to be a pervert. I don't think it needs to be stated that all transwomen are the same, here are two who are clearly very different.

It's not about one person in Canada. I do think we have to be aware of where Canada goes with this in time we may follow. Whilst all of this may not affect our generation as much I do think it's impacting on younger women and girls significantly.

Riverwalk yes I take your point about the relative safety of a clinical setting.
Clinicians do have a duty to treat everyone with dignity & respect, irrespective of gender, sexuality, religion etc. It’s part of professionalism. I was just musing & playing devil’s advocate really.

Mixed-sex toilets anyone?
(already happening in many public venues)

this was the first time in my 37 years that I had encountered a man hiding in a toilet, waiting to follow a woman out of a cubicle.

www.thenational.scot/news/17674915.shona-craven-the-bogeyman-lurking-in-womens-toilets-is-real/

Apart from the sheer nastiness of this individual and his/her ability to manipulate the law, the sad thing is that genuine trans people will get condemned as well, will be supposed to be perverts and we will be back to the bad old days of discrimination and persecution. People, including law makers and administrators who should surely know better, are tying themselves in knots in an effort to be inclusive and non-discriminatory and are as a result discriminating against common sense and the rights of people who are not trans. If this can happen in a sensible country like Canada, it is frightening.

Gonegirl it's about how self-identification of sex and 'inclusive' legislation is working in Canada and how it could work in the UK if self-id of sex is brought into law here.

Here is a link about some Labour mayors of English cities who are urging Penny Mordaunt to bring in self-id as soon as possible.

www.msn.com/en-gb/news/uknews/labour-mayors-urge-government-to-speed-up-gender-law-changes/ar-AAEw9sn

Here's another facet of the situation in Canada :

Vancouver Rape Relief and Women’s Shelter, Canada’s oldest rape crisis centre, has been stripped of city funding after refusing to rescind its policy of only serving female-born women.

www.google.com/amp/s/nationalpost.com/news/canada/canadas-oldest-rape-crisis-centre-stripped-of-city-funding-for-refusing-to-accept-trans-women/amp

Reading that doesn't fill me with confidence about the verdict of the court in Yaniv's litigation against the beauticians.

It doesn't concern the UK, and won't.

It will if the UK makes SID legal. Which is being considered...

Yes. That is disgusting.And it's about one person. In Canada.

I on't know about you lot, but I found this , from the article FarNorth linked to, very chilling.

For some, as described in a blog post by B.C. NDP VP and potential candidate Morgane Oger, she is known for her alleged history of potentially predatory behaviour.

This includes her apparent interest in helping 11 and 12-year-old girls insert their tampons. WTF!!!

I realise that the issue at the heart of this case is SID, which has huge ramifications, but I can't help thinking that, while here in the UK we tend to try to legislate against the very worst, freakish even, consequences of an action (the dreaded Health & Safety...), Canada seems to have gone the other way with legalising SID. I think, on the basis of this, and other reports, that we should not allow SID in the UK because this sort of predatory advantage taking should just never be allowed to happen.

Oh, I do like Bathsheba's post there.

grumpaa I was agreeing sith you - about no hair on the penis.

I'm getting off this ridiculous thread. Think the thread should never have been started. It doesn't concern the UK, and won't.

Pass.

On a lighter note, my S-I-L was used as a guinea pig by his beautician sisters to practise their waxing skills. He suffered the chest and the back but adamantly refused to allow them near the other parts of the back, crack and sac waxing they offered! That’s the term for the waxing offered by beauticians for men.

The difference lies in the potential reaction of the individual getting the labia/scrotum shaved. Medical attention to the male genital area very often produces an automatic erection and consequently embarrassment to the patient or in some cases actual danger to the nurse. The nurse has colleagues within call, the lone beautician in her treatment room has nobody.

I imagine beauticians that deal with the genital area of both sexes would state that in the services they offer and can therefore make an informed choice as to what they are prepared to deal with. As I understand it these women were working out of their own homes, and as such, would probably only be comfortable with female clients anway.

Bathsheba it's not that simple there are "lady penises" now as opposed to the bog standard ones on mere men

Beauticians deal with the genital area of both sexes. What difference does it make how someone identifies themself.

The problem with that Bathsheba is it would discriminate against those who are genuinely transitioning but not yet had surgery.

There's a simple answer to the changing room problem. Instead of 'Male' and 'Female', have signs reading 'With Penises' and 'Without Penises'. Sorted.

Unlike the Belfast case where they did actually want a cake, I doubt very much that this individual really does want his scrotum waxed.

Just trying to make trouble from what I've read.

Jane I would think that beauticians would feel it's very different waxing a scrotum; after all they are not in the relative safety of a clinical setting, just faced with someone off the street who wants his balls fondled.

I'm a nurse and have attended to all manner of genitalia with catheters, washing, topical meds, etc. but have never shaved a scrotum.

I think medics expect to have to deal with both male and female and do whatever is necessary as part of their job. I don't feel that beauticians who offer a waxing service for say "bikini lines" would anticipate having to deal with a transwoman with all her male parts. Possibly there are actual men, if we are allowed to say that, who want their intimate areas waxed but I imagine there are those who offer such a service to both sexes. I guess this person could have found one, but his actions aren't about that his mean spirited vindictive actions just want to punish and make an example of these women. In the meantime his questionable behaviour alongside young girls in toilets seems to go unchallenged.

It will be interesting to see what the outcome of the ruling in this case will be, if it goes against the female beauticians, that will have serious ramifications for women. Surely basic common sense should prevail, but who knows in this strange new world we inhabit where we are being forced to deny basic biology. I'm not sure even referring to this person as "he/him" can't be deemed as a hate crime. One woman on MN was arrested in front of her children, by several officers for misgendering a transwoman and held in a police cell for quite a few hours.

Like Grumppa I too thought of the Belfast bakers. The Supreme Court eventually ruled that they weren’t guilty of discrimination in refusing to bake the wedding cake for the gay couple.
I feel Jessica Yaniv’s transgenderism is not really the point.
He is just an extremely nasty individual who appears to be guilty of grooming young girls, and criminally exploiting vulnerable women.
The transgenderism is just a vehicle for that. I think there are a lot of people in the LBGTQ community who deplore this sort of exploitation of their movement.

Female nurses sometimes have to do things to men’s bits in the course of their clinical duties though.
So I’m not sure that beauticians who offer a waxing service should feel that waxing a scrotum is any different from waxing labia. Like nurses, they shouldn’t be emotionally involved in what they do.