Boris’s Grope?

Thinking about this and Boris's record as a womaniser it is likely that he tried the same thing with other women perhaps with some success. So if a woman had consensual sex with him after a grope under the table is she still a victim? And how much blame should a woman who did such a thing take for re-inforcing his behaviour as if it had never worked he would probably have stopped doing it?

Jainesworth , I totally agree, how did you conclude that I didn’t.?
Obviously I am not very good at getting my thought into the written word. Apologies for that

Obviously I am not condoning the awful behaviour of many humans, but as with all crimes there is a scale.

I don't think the timing of this allegation is that relevant - it's either true or it isn't.

The accuser is a Sunday Times journalist with a high-profile partner - what's in it for her? I wouldn't have thought it's going to enhance her career.

As it was 20 years ago she would have been a young journalist and Johnson was the editor of The Spectator so it was an abuse of his position. A grab of the thigh, high up, would have been intimidating. The fact that no one has expressed any surprise at this allegation says a lot. Oh, it's only Boris being Boris after all.

Urmstongan I posted the link in response to your ‘hahahaha’ comment, nothing else.

Bridgeit no one has said that women aren’t guilty of bullying and harassment, have they?
It doesn’t excuse men, does it?

Routine humiliation of both sexes was common in the workplace. It's why legislation was introduced to protect people against bullying and intimidation.

I have just remembered a time when I worked in a predominately all female factory,( I was very young at the time)
A new young man joined the team, he was obviously shy but also looks wise appealing to a lot of the older ladies, the things he had said to him were disgraceful, but the ladies thought it was hilarious.
I felt extremely sorry for him, he left the job shortly after.
One can only imagine what the response would have been if it had been the other way around.

A lot of the attitudes expressed here are exactly why so many women felt compelled to keep quiet for so long.

I agree with Nansnet

Nansnet, excellent post, very well worded.
I hope others reading it will also appreciate the wisdom of what you have said.

No janainsworth you seem to deliberately misinterpret what I’ve said. I do agree with him that (a) this seems trial by media (b) it is unproven so it’s an allegation and (c) we are ALL innocent until proven guilty.

The police and CPS will only deal with proof.

I’m not saying this woman wasn’t assaulted. Maybe she was. But how will we ever know now? But how can it be proven? And 20y to mention it? The timing of the revelation seems suspect to me.

It is brave and helpful of you to post on this thread, Loislovesstewie.

Twice I was groped by senior members of staff at work, when I was 19 and 21. It was enough for me to remove their hands on each occasion and no words were spoken. However, for some reason, which is difficult to articulate, I have never spoken about it either at the time to my parents or later to my husband. I suppose it must be some sort of culturally entrenched belief that I brought it on myself, even though I know it is not true. I did not particularly like the men and I was much too much of a mouse to dress provocatively.

loislove

So many of us have experienced the same, and were too shy or lacked the confidence at 17 in my case to speak out.

No one can understand the pain, misery and in my case at the time self blame that it caused.

Would I speak out now given the opportunity? Yes I would, but like your abuser he is probably dead.

I wasn't going to comment anymore but feel I must.
Many years ago I was seriously sexually assaulted at work by a manager. I didn't tell anyone because I knew that I wouldn't be believed, not by his colleagues who thought he was a great bloke, or by the police. At that time the authorities often thought that the woman was asking for it. The company in question is ,by the way, a high street name.
If , I thought that by speaking out now, I and all of the other women who he serially abused would get some justice then I would. The man in question is probably dead ,given his age at the time. If the company in question offered me compensation would I take it? Yes I would. I would like some acknowledgement of the psychological distress that was caused to me by one of their 'respected' employees. As it is I don't normally speak of what happened as it causes too much pain , but until we understand more about why men behave appallingly and why women are unable to speak out I, for one, won't be blaming the woman who does.

Urmstongran and Nansnet
Maybe you agree with the late Alan Clark too.....
twitter.com/femi_sorry/status/1178688827109584908?s=21

I wholeheartedly sympathize with any woman (or man) who has been intimidated, or abused, either sexually or otherwise, however mild/serious the actions were. However, I do question why someone would bring up this allegation now, after 20 years, without any real proof to back it up. Let's face it, any person holding a grudge against someone else, could say anything they like to discredit another person, without the need of proof. Whether it's true or not is totally irrelevant, as the damage has already been done by smearing the character of the person in question.

Since the #MeToo movement began, it seems that there's an awful lot of people bringing up decades-old allegations. Personally, it makes me very uncomfortable, the fact that a woman (or man) can say something happened 20 years ago and she is believed, when it may not even be true, and no one can prove it one way or another. It can ruin the lives of innocent people. In many cases, I'd wager that there's an ulterior motive. I'm not a fan of Boris, but it's pretty obvious that this woman has her reasons for bringing this out into the media circus right now, rather than complaining about it 20 years ago. For all we know, if it did happen, it didn't bother her then, and it may not bother her now, but it's served its purpose to discredit the PM ... whether it was true or not.

Sadly, we all know that there are many genuine cases of intimidation/abuse, but I don't think the #MeToo movement has particularly helped. It seems like everyone is on the bandwagon these days, especially celebrities who many of them, we know for a fact, got themselves into difficult situations to further their careers. I'm not saying that the men in these cases had a right to behave the way they did, but really, we all need to be responsible for ourselves, and not put ourselves into certain situations.

Yes, I'm a woman, and I do find any form of abuse totally unacceptable, but I'm afraid I'm sick of hearing about #MeToo, and decades-old allegations. I feel sorry for men these days, the majority of whom would never treat a woman badly, yet they all seem to be tarred with the same brush by all these feminists, many of whom have their own agenda.

The reason given for disclosing now, is that it’s the second anniversary of the Harvey Weinstein allegations and #MeToo.

Hahahahahahaha.

Not read the whole thread, so apologies if this link has already been provided.
www.thetimes.co.uk/article/charlotte-edwardes-on-boris-johnson-s-wandering-hands-hnxnqwbb8?utm_source=twitter&utm_campaign=fy20_newaudiences&utm_medium=paid_social&utm_content=charlotteedwardes&dclid=COSEyaLA-eQCFSX81QodaYsNDw
The reason given for disclosing now, is that it’s the second anniversary of the Harvey Weinstein allegations and #MeToo.
She says in the article that #MeToo has given her the courage to call out men who act as Boris did, all those years ago.
I wonder how all those on this thread who have defended Boris, feel about being inappropriately touched if it happens to them.
Robert Peston has just been on the news & referred to Charlotte as his partner.

Or you Lemongrove

Trisher, clearly you haven’t read all of my comments from the beginning of the thread.
Consequently you have made a misinterpretation.

It is an allegation.

The rest is up to the Police.

No SirChenjin Why did you think it was ok to grope a woman Boris? That’s the issue here.

It’s not.

The issue is, it has not been proven.

Och I'm sure it did happen. It's most likely happened to many women who sat next to Boris but it's the timing that's suspect. As others have said why wait till now to come out with this? It's a pathetic attempt at a smear that's not actually necessary. Nothing would surprise the great British public about Boris.

I forgot the word allegedly.....because it’s one person’s word only that it ever happened.

Afraid to speak out?! This was a hand on leg situation ( not a serious sex attack) I would have smacked the hand very hard,
And not regarded myself as a traumatised victim.