NOT real meat

Like others, I find your reaction very strange.

And non-meat products are clearly labelled.

I think a lot of the 'pretend meat' products are a clever marketing ploy aimed at new vegetarians or vegans. Shops want to charge an equivalent (high) price for them so want to firmly associate them with meat in a customer's mind.

Back in the 1950s my parents grew a lot of fruit and veg. The Meat Marketing Board and dairy industry influenced the public to believe that you needed their products. We were told to 'Go to work on an egg, drink a pint of milk a day' etc. I don't think whole grains, seeds, nuts or pulses featured as beneficial at the time.

When I became vegetarian at 12 years old, they thought I'd soon be thin, pale and anaemic! I'm still very healthy, by the way!

"we are presently producing more than enough food to feed the whole world with some left over.
The problems is logistics and waste, not to mention war and conflict."

Without doubt these problems exist.

However the reason there is a lot of food is the UNSUSTAINABLE methods of producing food. These methods impoverish the soil,

erode land stability when trees are cut down or food animals eat the trees,

use land for inefficient foods such as flesh and dairy,

over- fish the seas,

poison ground water and rivers with agri runoff.

I Love met but I don't eat it for welfare reasons. So being able to find vegitarian products the are meaty is fabulous. I never understand this countries obsession with meat. The way chickens are kept is horrid, and treated like a commodity.

Alexa we are presently producing more than enough food to feed the whole world with some left over.
The problems is logistics and waste, not to mention war and conflict.

Davidhs you can get canvas and latex deck shoes etc but if you want them water-resistent and suitable for winter you're probably going to have to rely on petrochemicals to a certain extent, or wear wellingtons.

I couldn’t find any so called Vegan footwear that are made from plant based materials. Most specified synthetic everything and being Vegan Friendly , M&S in particular specified “other material” or textile and nowhere do they mention being degradable.

Leather tanning does use nasty chemicals, so does synthetic material production, the amount of health and environmental damage done in China, India and other synthetic manufacturing countries is on a par with the UK 100 yrs ago.

Go to China and try snooping around the non tourist areas the police will very firmly redirect you.

You can’t say leather production is eco friendly. The leather industry is hugely environmentally damaging. Turning skin into leather requires massive amounts of energy and dangerous chemicals like formaldehyde, chrome. The tanning process contains large amounts of pollutants and toxic chemicals like arsenic. Cancer risks among tannery workers in some cases are 20-50% higher than there would be otherwise. That’s without all the environmental damage of raising animals industrially - water, land use etc. Let’s face it, anything we do. / eat/ wear has an environmental impact. But that shouldn’t mean we shouldn’t try to do the least harm.

JacquiG, it's not possible to feed all the people in the world on the quality meat you describe. There is not enough land.There are too many people and most of them are too poor to eat any meat.

My thoughts exactly x

Good well-balanced post, JacquiG

Thank you for your post JacquiG
You might be interested in this article which explains why methane from cows isn’t such a problem as other greenhouse gases.
www.google.co.uk/amp/s/theconversation.com/amp/why-methane-should-be-treated-differently-compared-to-long-lived-greenhouse-gases-97845

A burger to me isnt about the patty itself. Its the whole thing: the bun, the toppings, what you have on the side!

I dont see the point in a beef patty though. If Im going to have beef I would rather have a steak or something. I prefer other types of mince. Beef is hard to digest and increases your risk of cancer more than any other lifestyle item other than cigarettes

So as a meat eater, I like a burger but prefer turkey/chicken/veg/bean burgers.

If I'm going to have beef then I'll have proper beef that looks and tastes like beef

A burger patty or a sausage isnt "fake meat" as patties and sausages dont really resemble the meat theyre made of anyway IMO

There is some thought that meat eating is not going to go away, and that provided animals are humanely reared and properly looked after, that ruminants should be increased in number. They recondition the soil which is already depleted in minerals by poor agriculture practice, and are suited to the large areas of UK not suitable for arable/veg production.

As long as they are pastured, not in huge feeding stations fed rubbish and soy, they will provide omega 3 fats, minerals, vitamins, and other essential nutrients. eg vit B12, and lutein.

These are necessary for good health.

As for being vegan, I quite understand the moral purpose, and there are some lovely recipes for beans and veg, many from the East. However, there is a need to not go for the cereals as carbs are sugars, and too much sugar can give rise to diabetes 2.

Personally I don't see why there is a need for pretend meat. This is just a marketing opportunity to make money out of the climate emergency, pushed by powerful investors and hedge funds. There are delicious vegan foods without the use of hydrolysed pea protein and chemicals we cant pronounce the names of. IMO.

Esspee, thanks for direction to the sausage bake recipe. I had n't known about all these Tesco recipes and they are really useful.

Gabriella are the vegan school shoes flexible?
I was thinking that some of those awful pvc shoes have no 'give' in them, not good for young feet, and tend to make the feet sweat.
Presumably being made of plant material they would be better.
Can they be polished, cleaned? (I'm thinking of muddy puddles).

I don't much care what others eat, it's everyone's personal choice. I've never been that fond of meat and nowadays our diet is majority vegetarian. I usually choose vegetarian when I'm eating out, too. I'd probably become veggie if I didn't live with a family of meat-lovers! Fortunately, I live in rural Scotland so I can buy locally produced meat and avoid the factory farmed stuff.

However, I'm wary of meat substitutes. I was really quite ill (as in spending the night in the bathroom!) after having Linda Macartney sausages and I can't tolerate soya products so I stay away from those. I'm happy with veg and pulses etc.

I do like cheese, though, and don't think I'd want to be vegan.

You can look on M&S website for vegan school shoes.
All vegan stuff is labelled and clear on website.

Davidhs

I have it on good authority that the boots I mentioned in earlier comment are made from plant derivatives as is the glue.
That means ya can eat them when ya finish wearing them...or bury them and ya might get a row of corn or a plot of hemp.
???

m and s has closed down in our town, otherwise I would have asked there about vegan school shoes. Its a shame it has, but then they are being replaced by a charity superstore. Personally in austerity I feel that is actually more useful for people. Reduce, reuse recycle etc.

I'm with what they call the 'flexitarian' contingent.

We never ate a lot of meat in our household but recently had to morph with the times as daughter became vegetarian. It is easier (and cheaper) to cook same things as a household.

Despite being a good cook myself (and she is) we found we didn't really like the taste of veggie alternatives to meat.

There were also other dietary requirements. Me post-menopause feeling as if I need more omega three (I buy fresh sardines) and having been anaemic in the past due to period issues and flooding, sometimes eat meat by myself because I feel I need it.

Then there are financial issues and general CO2 emissions per head. It the per head bit that I feel needs to be in the forefront. We have never run a car, don't fly and insulation in house is good. So our CO2 emisisons are laughable really compared to some.

So all in all, I am still learning, will reflect on points raised here.

Was recently looking for new school shoes. Resorted to Clarks for the fit. When she was younger used to buy the leather ones from Green Shoes as you could get them stretched and though expensive, they lasted ages. But actually my babes wanted vegan school shoes but couldn't find any. Please mention if you know of any decent ones. (They can't look rustic but must fit in with school shoe requirements...black...polishable etc)

Will look out for the veggie sausages and casserole recipe. As with most things in life, variety is the key I feel for us moving forward.

Thanks
painting

Very. Cows not only give out huge amounts of methane gas but the slaughter, tanning processes, dying, drying and subsequent manufacture of leather boots (or shoes) is beaten hands down by responsibly sourced and manufactured vegan footwear.

We all have a carbon footprint, the best we can do is to make choices that we consider to be ethical whatever that means to us. Having seen where leather comes from I avoid it completely.

I’m veggie have been for nearly 30years. Personally I prefer meals made from vegetable rather than substitutes meat products. I don’t understand why people would want to eat them. However each to their own. One daughter and her family all veggie, husband does eat meat occasionally and the children can try it if they want to. They love pepperoni . I must admit I always have a bag of emergency veggie sausages in the freezer, I just don’t eat them. My other granddaughter who is a meat eat likes them too.

Waitrose 1 have 97% pork, Tesco 90% in theirs but the pork isn't just lean meat. It could be from the snout or tail for all you know.
Never take listed ingredients at face value.