No Christmas anymore for Selfish Adult Sons ?

Having bought up 3 males, my one bit of advice to you is to be very clear about what you want them to do. Some (most) men seem to be unable to take the initiative, read the signs or empathise until the facts are pointed out to them.
Give it to them straight and kindly. It's not unreasonable to point out that you and your husband are not in the best of health, are getting on a bit, and are exhausted from caring for your daughter, and what would be great is if they took over Christmas, the shopping, cooking and clearing up over the 3 days they come, to give you and their dear old Pa a break... I'd be tempted to point out wryly that the time comes when the child has to look after the parent that looked after them. That time is now.
They may just not be aware of how selfish they are being, and do what all offspring do when they go home, revert back to children.
Good luck!

I just heard today that my DMiL used to hate when our DC never helped with clearing tables or washing up when she hosted Christmas day, years ago!
I was thanking her for all those years when she slaved to give us a wonderful time. I had no idea that she resented it.
Anyway it was my turn today and still the DC don't leap into action.

Some people just behave very badly at Christmas - they seem to find it an excuse to do so.

I guess your sons are well meaning but ignorant.

Tell them, especially son number one you love him and exactly what help you require . Do you require time off from daughter care for a summer holiday?

Next Xmas you can still welcome sons , tell the adolescent men you love them, and provide Indian takeaways or frozen fish and chips.

and also ask if they could not use the main TV for their games all the time.

No, don't ask, them, tell them that you will watch your TV in your living room, if they don't like it tough, next year they can make alternative arrangements.

The only unreasonable aspect is that you haven't said this to your sons years ago!

Dear lady, you have enough on your plate!

Stick to your guns about next Christmas. If your sons attempt to change your mind, tell them that they can come if the buy and cook all the food, wash up, wash their used bed-linen before they leave and leave their various electronic devices at home, as you want to talk to them while they are visiting,

Sadly due to your amazingly good and kind nature you have created your own two monsters in my opinion. You treating them like you are there to serve and cater to them has instilled in them the belief that you have no needs of your own. It does not give anyone the right to exploit good natured people but sadly in my experience mothers who bring up their children without telling said children that you are not there solely for there requirements end up with adult children who go on treating their mothers as yours are treating you. I know your good nature will prevent you from blowing a gasket as I would but try and think of yourself and your health and needs. They want as my mother would say ‘a hard clip round the ear’. And they do!

Where is your DH in all this?
It seems like these AS have become paralysed as soon as they're back in the childhood home where mum does everything.
I am lucky because my lot know if they don't muck in, nothing would get done.
Also DH has always loved cooking so he has been an example to his sons and all ours can cook although one has a DW who runs around after everyone. I fear for her. She's making a rod to beat her own back.

I agree you should try to get some help, some respite . There are hotels/holidays for families with disabilities but you will know this.

That sounds intolerable behaviour.I would definitely set them straight for next year.
I have to say the last few years I have delegated some of the food to our adult DCs.Only a bit but apart from anything it's very expensive hosting for a few days.And I'm very lucky in that ours are generally helpful,and DD actually cooked a lovely Xmas day meal.But they do still revert to teenagers lounging around.And each year I find it more intense and tiring. It's been lovely to see them all but I'm thrilled to reclaim my sofa -and the TV remote.
But if I had to cope with your extra caring duties OP I would put yourself first next year.And the fact they make no effort to come any other time means they absolutely shouldn't get away with such selfish behaviour.A tricky one but suggest a family get together at a time that suits you.Give them a wake up call.

I meant to add! That I actually felt my children felt they were letting ME down by deciding to stay in their own homes! They way they were so apologetic (me dancing a jig in kitchen hahaha). So maybe your sons feel it is their duty? Straight talking is the answer I think ?

Totally emphthise with you HelenR

I DO think a lot of adult children revert to 'children' when they come home. For years I felt I was just a slave at Christmas as was chief chef and bottle washer and it got worse when they started bringing partners home for Christmas - I was asked to pass the wine/beer, juggling the spuds and sprouts, while they all spread themselves out in the lounge playing nintendo or whatever! Then the grandchildren came along....

In one way I loved seeing them all so happy so I let it slide. I am not in ill health though but I was really not enjoying Christmas Day much!

This year was totally different but mainly because they all decided to stay in their own homes (phew) So I didn't have to say anything at all. I can't believe how relieved I was (which I know is a shame for those who would LOVE to have their c/gc there at Christmas!

I don't think you are being unreasonable at all! But whether you can get through to them is another matter.

I think, I would just be totally honest and see what happens?

As Grannypiper says, look after yourselves and find out about help out there! Don't be too proud to ask for help wherever it comes from.

helenrowenaPlease talk to your Doctor about a care package for your Daughters, maybe even respite care. You are only one person and cant do it all.

It sounds pretty grim but certainly fixable. Next year, tell them what is expected of them ie who will bring what food, or who will do the online shop and how much each will contribute. While they’re there agree who is going to cook what meal, and who will do each part of the Christmas lunch. They both need to pitch in but unless you set boundaries and expectations they’ll just slide back into the way they are at their own homes with mum and dad running after them. There’s nothing wrong with playing computer games for a bit but if you want family games then tell them they each need to bring one (get them cheap from the charity shop or eBay) and get each of them to make up a quiz. However, phones and tech are now a part of everyday life (you’re only 61, you know this!!) so don’t expect them not to feature at all over Christmas.

We cross posted.

"I just think that this computer generation are increasingly out of touch with reality , despite my efforts to make them aware over the years. The sons in particular seem to live in a sort of bubble - especially Son1 who takes his mobile everywhere and relies on it for everything, socialising, music, films, "

What reality? Yours when you grew up or theirs with the present times?
You are being unreasonable here.

Before computers, people could stop socializing by reading books, doing crosswords, fixing cars, etc.
It is not the technology's fault a person does not want to be present in mind- however present in body.

This is the Xmas that broke the the camel's back.

Were your sons always so immature? Did they do housechores in the past?
If you don't enjoy Xmas with them, why do you invite them back?

Without knowing the background, all I can say is that the past repeats itself.
If this is new behaviour, tell them to cut it off or leave your home.
Something tells me that the fact that you dread Xmas with your sons - this is not new.

It is not your fault ds2 has no friends. Why do you feel responsible for that?

Now, do you have a long term plan for the care of your daughters?
You, as parents, need to plan for their future if your daughters don't have the capacity to do so.

All good advice here. When the boys were young you obviously cared for them well, but it seems you never broke out of that behaviour pattern. I think boys will often let mum wait on them hand and foot forever more if she is willing, so I agree this is a result of your child rearing habits. Really they should be making tea and clearing the table from quite an early age to encourage them to share household activities. It may be difficult to change their behaviour now, but you can try during their next visit (not Christmas).
I would definitely not have them for Christmas again unless they prove on previous visits they can fully participate in household duties.
I would also agree that they should stay there and give you a complete break from caring, even if it's only a long weekend. They must learn to take some responsibility for their siblings and not expect you to care for them alone. At some point you will not be able to carry on with your caring duties and need to plan for that.

I dont know why they are both so unhelpful as they were encouraged to help as children, Pocket money was cut for bad behaviour or not helping out enough ,
Son2 says he gets bored when he comes to stay as he lives in Aberdeen and likes the city, He isnt interested in the countryside at all.
Im going to write and explain we are tired and want a break
When I left home at 18 and returned at Christmas me and my siblings always contributed, each one of us brought wine, or dessert or whatever, and we helped with clearing up too, We also visited frequently throughout the year despite distances, Of course there were no gadgets back in the 1970s and we played board games and all watched Morecambe and Wise etc as there were only 3 channels on tv.
I just think that this computer generation are increasingly out of touch with reality , despite my efforts to make them aware over the years. The sons in particular seem to live in a sort of bubble - especially Son1 who takes his mobile everywhere and relies on it for everything, socialising, music, films,
When he was a teenager he sent an email to his friend across the road, I remember saying just go over and knock on his door like I used to with my friends , but he said "thats not what people do now",
I miss the old days when life was so simple and no computers . There was less choice but we survived fine and people actually talked to each other more,

I bet they don't behave like lazy teenagers when they're away from you. They just seem to revert to a child-like state when they come home.

They are quite old enough, however, to understand the strain you are under - when it's clearly spelt out to them, that is. They should be capable of the cooking and clearing up, at the very least. If you have them visit again, ask them to bring something, perhaps ready cooked, as they should contribute too - as adult members of the family.

You say son2 lives only 50 miles away but has no friends and would be lonely, so why does he not visit more? Wouldn't he be just as lonely at other holidays, what does he do with his annual leave? I wonder if to help you feel better you could try asking for help especially during holidays - both sons might just need very very very (sic) clear instructions about caring for their siblings and giving you both a break.

Sensible advice given here. You have enough to cope with and 2 adult sons who don't lift a finger is out of order.

You have told one son, now the other other son you say is lonely now is the time to tell him so he can make other plans well in advance. May he could go on a holiday (Explore or Exodus are good travel people for young single people or even do some voluntary work. It is not up to you to provide his company, he must seek his own.

When they do come to tay you must be more assertive, say I cooked the meal so can you clear away and wash up. Tell them what you want doing. Good luck.

What Scribbles said...the fault is actually yours and your husband's for allowing them to behave in that way. I expect they were indulged all the time when growing up too. If they had been bought up knowing they needed to help around the house, they would continue to do so even after they had left home.

The fact they have no partners speaks volumes- who would put with them- and you have done them no favours, if they ever get one. Sorry, it's harsh, but children are products of their upbringing. However, it's never too late to change YOUR behaviour. I hope your daughters are suitably grateful for the help you give them and do as much as they can in the household too.

You need to be more assertive. When your sons return you slip into parent-child again. They are adults. Suggest you all watch a film and if they want to play Xbox they can use your bedroom TV. Tell them before they come that “we’d love to see you, and if you could give us a hand with Xmas Dinner this year that would be lovely”. Then ask them to clear their glasses/cups up!

What is unreasonable, OP, is that you've put up with their selfish behaviour this long.

I get that many people regard Christmas as being "family time" but, surely, that only applies if the family members are reasonable people? Your sons are not being reasonable and it's more than time you told them the party's over. They're old enough to make their own arrangements and should be encouraged to do so. (Maybe the son you say has no friends would be less lonely if he changed his attitude and was less entitled and selfish?).

Do write or email them both soon and tell them plainly that this has been the last big family Christmas. This will give them almost a year to plan their 2020 festivities. Above all, don't let yourself feel guilty. You've been a saint to put up with it for this long.

Oh no you have so much to cope with without this selfish pair ! Do what's been suggested already and put yourselfs first, they will grow up eventually and hopefully someday realise.I don't know what's going on with adult children these days, one of mine included, i was left hurt after being critised throughout the day, I couldn't do anything right!

You are not being unreasonable at all HelenR, heavens you have enough to deal with looking after your two daughters. Adult children seem to revert to being the children they used to be when with parents - totally selfish.

I think someone above suggested writing to them and I would do that, explaining that you are getting older and are tired and if they would like to come during the summer that would work better for you.

You mustn't do Christmas again for them, Christmas in future will be just for the two of you and your two daughters.

Sending you ((hugs))