Veganism

Anniezzz
“There is plenty of information out there about misuse of antibiotics on farm animals and their use as growth promoters. For instance :”

This is how desperate the emotional anti farming lobby are
This research was done in 2003 in the USA .
Admittedly there are growth promoters of all types used in the US along with different welfare, hygiene and environmental standards there.

British food products do not use growth promoters

British livestock are raised in healthy well ventilated conditions, because if they were not farmers would not make a living. Some of the units are quite large, but these are the best managed units, producing premium food, under very close supermarket supervision.

Every drug used has to be justified approved and audited

Do British supermarkets still sell eggs from caged hens?

Davidhs wrote:
"Antibiotics are only used under veterinary supervision to cure an illness or injury."

But animals that are fattened or used for breeding in factory farms are more likely to be diseased due to inadequate spaces and ventilation. This is why antibiotics are used to fatten otherwise unhealthy animals .

Following the comments made to me on this thread I asked my DD this morning if she still wanted to be a vegan. She said that she did not and that no one else was doing at school anymore, they had got fed up with it and she indicated a number of people had decided to be vegan because they thought it was a good away of losing weight.

Now that worried me as my DD is stick thin and coming into puberty. They last thing she needs is weight loss. I didnt say anything more

As I pointed out previously her main reasoning had been to fit in with her school friends. Now it isnt an issue.

I accept some people are livng their lives by their principles but my DD seems to be a crowd follower. What can I do except shug shoulders?

Same here, vegansrock, veggie 50 years ago and mainly cheese with vegetables. Mum made me lovely tomato, potato and mushroom pies with pepper and Marmite flavouring too!

To answer your question, Eglantine21, I cook for meat eaters, vegetarians and vegans in the family - and I'm especially careful with a granddaughter who has milk protein allergy. I don't dictate what they can and can't eat and never have done!

When I went veggie over 50 years ago my mother could not understand it , plus she had no idea of what to cook. At first it was, if you don’t like it go without, and after a few standoffs, she began to provide some grated cheese or the odd quiche which I ate with the potatoes or whatever. I also started to do a bit of cooking myself. She didn’t force me to eat what I didn’t want to, and eventually, bless her, she did take my wishes into account even though I was only 10, and she had 2 other children to feed.

There is plenty of information out there about misuse of antibiotics on farm animals and their use as growth promoters. For instance :

www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC153145/

I'm afraid neither vets nor farmers are lily white followers of rules and regulations.

This article is so bad that it shows battery hens as an example, battery hens are the least likely to be treated for coccidiosis.
It is a parasitic disease that may affect poultry that have access to faeces, all poultry have access to their droppings, except caged birds as shown.
Young chicks are the most likely to be treated, all birds are succeptible, even wild chicks, in the nest which is why poultry farms have strict bio security.
Drugs used to treat the disease is not an antibiotic, nor is it used in human medication

Which just shows how gullible and ignorant readers are, they believe anything printed instead of believing reality. If you want to see antibiotic overuse just look at the NHS.

Really, Davidhs?

This, at the top of the search engine list.

www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/antibiotics-chicken-uk-farms-drug-resistance-poultry-countryfile-a8847326.html

Eglantine21 posted-

"And I have found that since more people have become vegan the price of “vegan” foods has shot up. I used to be able to make a nutritious lentil or split pea soup for under 50p. Now lentils are almost £2.00 a pack. I don’t think it’s a cheaper option at all."

This is absolute rubbish. You can buy a 500g pack of lentils in Waitrose (generally regarded as the most expensive supermarket) for £1.20, and if you shop around in cheaper places, you can buy them for half that or less.

When some of my family became vegan nearly 14 years ago it was more difficult to find vegan products (as opposed to fresh ingredients) but as vegetarianism and veganism have become more popular it is a lot easier to find a good range of items and they are far less expensive than meat.

Quite apart for the ethical, environmental and health arguments for giving up meat, you would also eat well for less cost.

“ There is a lot of evidence that eating meat, dairy and eggs are bad for you. Most animals are pumped with anti biotics or they may have a disease of some kind which all goes into the food chain.”

That is a blatant lie.

Antibiotics are only used under veterinary supervision to cure an illness or injury.
Don’t think becoming a vegan makes you immune from artificial additives or chemicals, plants are regularly treated to kill weeds or diseases.
The only way to avoid that is to grow all your own.

Davidhs I do that I like veggie breakfast but don't eat eggs. My DH also loves full English and it doesn't faze me one bit. I've never even commented on it, it's his choice and he doesn't interfere with my mine! As long as there's an alternative I'm OK with it.

This woman could have been reasonable and asked for a vegetarian breakfast without the egg, or simply asked for beans on toast with hash browns, which she had, but oh no she had to make a scene.
BTW, DH had full English - poor sod.

Hi Vegansrock Thank your for all your comments. Sorry I am not very good with words but I agree with all you have said. I was a vegetarian for for over 23 years and March 2018 became vegan but trying to eat more plant based homemade food. My husband joined me January 2019. It has really helped him because he had blood pressure issues after a TIA about 5 years ago. He takes his blood pressure every 6 months or so for a week to check all is well. My reasons for turning vegan 1. the animals and their suffering, 2 for my health,3 to lose weight and 4 the environment. There is a lot of evidence that eating meat, dairy and eggs are bad for you. Most animals are pumped with anti biotics or they may have a disease of some kind which all goes into the food chain. If anyone has Netflix there is a good film Fork over Knives. You have to really do your research to get a proper balanced diet. B12 which vegans have to take are not actually from the animals " Vitamin B12 is not made by plants or animals but by microbes that blanket the earth. In today’s sanitized, modern world, the water supply is commonly chlorinated to kill off any bacteria. So, while we don’t get much B12 in the water anymore, we don’t get much cholera, either, which is a good thing!( Dr Michael Greger" Look up NutritionFacts anyone interested in improving their health)

How people parent is actually nothing to do with anyone else, as long as it isn't abusive.

I'm sure everyone follows that rule when it applies to their own adult children and their offspring.

DS2, now 47, and a vegetarian since his teens, has decided to be a vegan. He visited for a night recently and asked me to book a table for brunch, so I phoned round and found the best arrangement for a vegan breakfast was, oddly, at a Smokehouse, best known for meaty meals. Since adapting his diet, he has also taken up running and is sleeping much better than he used to. His kitchen cabinets are full of strange ingredients and dietary supplements.

My daughter went vegetarian at the age of 8. She's now 34 and is still veggie. I agree with Riverwalk, making NO changes at all is controlling. By all means, no specific 'meat replacement' products, but simply the addition of some baked beans would add a protein.

Assuming a child of 11 doesn't know their own mind is insulting, IMO. Look at Greta Thunberg.

BlueSky - I think it is the minority of vegetarians/vegans who have to proclaim their choice to the world who cause the antagonism towards those, like yourself, who don't feel it necessary to do so.

Davidhs I have been a strict vegetarian (no eggs or milk but still eat cheese) for about 35 years but never volunteer this information in public because of the reaction you get. Luckily it's getting a bit better nowadays but I never preach my choices.

Last year DGD(10) was a vegetarian, for a very short time!

When she visited I accommodated her wishes, as did her parents at home, as she's to be respected as much as the rest of us. We are all big meat/fish eaters so it did take a bit of imagination. I didn't prepare separate meals and make it hard work but what I would never have done is to plonk meat and three veg on the table and tell her take what she wanted.

For a start vegetables prepared to accompany meat are not the same as those part of a vegetarian/vegan meal - and there would be no protein for her.

It's not pandering to allow a child to express her wishes and for the adults to make a bit of an effort to accommodate them

*have been

Would it have acceptable if she was wingeing about a lack of bacon, Davidhs?

This debate is about choice, it does not bother me one jot if someone is a vegetarian or vegan, they can eat however they wish.What I do object to is them telling me how I should eat, “how do you know there is a vegan in the room” - “ they will tell you”.
I saw a vegan yesterday haranguing staff at the local Waitrose cafe, because there was no specific vegan breakfast on the menu. Totally out of order, she was just making a exhibition of herself, trying to make herself look superior.