Veganism

why shouldn't a cricket club make it easy for those catering by the default menu being vegan? They will have to cater for those with say coeliac or Crohn's, or those with a life-threatening allergy, a vegan meal should be suitable for most apart from those with medical needs, many cricket clubs in some parts of the country would need Halal and that should ensure that everyone can eat together, that they feel welcomed and accepted. And letting anyone with special needs know what is in the food is a basic humanitarian requirement so they can work out for themselves if they might suffer an anaphylactic shock
In days gone by ham sandwiches were so special that it was a matter of pride that you buried someone with ham
No one is going to become malnourished by eating a vegan meal once a week
In recent years some schools have hatched out chicks, and children have been told that they have been returned to the farm afterwards. Doing it on a personal scale this may be true, but in many cases, this is just not true, the cockerels are slaughtered, and the pullets too if no one comes forward to rescue them. IT is right to publicise to all the horrific conditions that factory-farmed hens are kept in, so that people know and opt for humanely reared chickens and ethically produced eggs.
In my experience, the people that just feed the vegetables to a vegetarian child living with them are the ones who would be to blame for not ensuring that they are well-nourished, in the same way, that they would be to blame if a child suffered because they would not adapt to a diet needed for medical reasons. I've heard of schools in the past giving children with coeliac or Crohn's food with ingredients that cause flare-ups, it's not the school that is up in the night with a child in pain, and they do not seem to realise that over the years all these flare-ups cause long-lasting problems
If you'd adapt your cooking for your grandma or father who suffers with indigestion if they eat a certain food item, why would you not adapt your cooking so that your child can eat things that will not harm them physically or upset them because of their principles
I'm personally not a vegan or a vegetarian and in fact the family do keep livestock in as humane a way as possible. I want to know that the animals who provide any animal products I do eat have suffered as little as possible. In our family in different generations, there are people who don't eat things for either health reasons or because the food makes them gag...I'd not deliberately serve a family member something that they did not like, would cause health problems or that they could not eat because of ethical reasons even if I didn't agree. But we've always managed to get everyone fed with things they will or can eat, without affecting diabetic aunt Annie or uncle dave with gout, or grandma who is up all night with indigestion if she eats xy or z and it's never been a problem. If you won't do that for your child that is being ageist and neglectful. Even the queen I undesetand lets hosts know what she doesn't eat and if she came to see you you'd ensure that you kept to her requirements. If I want to eat unethically produced items that would cause a family member to have an anaphylactic shock, or dripping sandwiches or bacon butties I can do that out of the home can't I or do it when the those who don't eat them aren't there
We used to have cookery classes in school, and we used to study nutrition, taking other considerations into account is just an offshoot of this surely

Children should be protected from the extreme faith and value systems of adults. Using the state system which educates 93% of our children to indoctrinate them with whatever the latest fad or phase entails is an abuse of influence and power.

This is particularly true when food is concerned as frightening children into avoiding certain food groups like meat is damaging to their mental and physical health. Growing children need protein, iron and B vitamins which are very difficult to access in a vegan diet and there is a high link between veganism and depression, not to mention that much vegan food is highly processed and added to to make it palatable.

Me too, vegansrock same story. Veganism is so healthy once you've got your head around it too. There is solid evidence now about the connection between dairy and various cancers, especially breast cancer.

I have three veggie or vegan daughters, all very healthy and fit. Only one ever had antibiotics in childhood. It's not difficult, it's a perfectly sound choice.

Processing plant milks cause more CO2 production than extensively reared dairy cows.

Vegans usually have problems with iron and vitB12 deficiencies if their diet is not very carefully planned.

Children's diets need additional careful planning. I would go and ask the school for their menus. These should be readily available as they have to be planned & submitted in advance.

Perhaps the lesson was merely teaching children where food comes from and your GD was previously unaware that meat comes from animals.

There was a survey recently of 5,000 children between the ages of 6 and 15 which showed 1 in 10 thought tomatoes grew underground, pasta came from cows and fish fingers were made of chicken!

A meat eater myself I am in favour of children being taught where food comes from - something I think those of us of our generation grew up knowing (although I would draw the line at showing a film of an abattoir!)

I became a vegetarian over 50 years ago when I was a similar age to your granddaughter, after seeing a chicken being slaughtered. My mother was a meat and two veg cook and was horrified. Eventually she managed to give me potatoes and vegetables with grated cheese on top, egg and chips and beans on toast that sort of thing. I’ve only relatively recently become vegan and have found it so easy and wish I’d done it sooner.

I taught in quite a few state schools for over 40 years, but never come across one incident of indoctrination.
Yes children should know where meat comes from. No, I would never have shown my (teenage) pupils scenes from an abattoir.
I'd expect the parent of any primary child having nightmares/uncontrolled sobbing for any reason to have mentioned it next day to the class teacher anyway.
I feel guilty as a veggie drinking cows' milk, as I know a cow should live to 20 years and that dairy cows often die at well under half that.
Finally I've eaten dozens of adult cricket teas. Around London area, it's a multicultural event, therefore I assume multi-faith. Making it vegan (especially no dairy, no meat/fish) sounds sensible to reduce waste. I used to have to find a minder who would check for meat/fish content for me!

Dear Barb, I’m sorry that your granddaughter was upset and hopefully she will feel happier soon and work out, with all your help, a healthy diet, vegan or otherwise.

These discussions about plant based diets etc are everywhere, not just at school, but also on tv, in newspapers, everywhere.

For example, I haven't eaten pork since I was 9 when I saw a TV documentary about a dear little pig and his life from birth to the abattoir, ghastly.

Pheonix - fab post, my view is that the industrialisation of food production is what is so dangerous and unpleasant for us all and the world and hideous for the animals concerned. And as for torturing and eating dogs, I have no words. ?

Population growth will slow down

ourworldindata.org/future-population-growth

www.google.co.uk/amp/s/www.bbc.com/news/amp/science-environment-46654042
A comparison of different milks in terms of nutrition and environmental impact.

Yeh Oatly for me too!

Professional people spend years learning both academically and practically

Neither doctors nor teachers know everything . Professional which makes professionals vastly better equipped than lay people to decide what is best to be in children's curriculums.

I understand parents' fears for their children's welfare and I hope the schools can allay these fears which for the most part are unnecessary as regards mainstream state schools in the UK

You can easily avoid almond milk ( which is still less environmentally destructive than cows milk) . The best plant milk is oat milk and is a crop we grow in the U.K. so choose fortified oat milk if you want to avoid dairy.

I'm afraid that these days one often does know better than one's doctor and if you're ill, you'd be wise to find out about it for yourself, few doctors are specialists!

It's interesting how much prejudice and intolerance there is in this thread against vegans coming from the perspective of meat eating being right! But meat eating is a choice like any other. It's what surrounds children growing up in most homes and if they are to make an informed choice then they need to hear the other side of the story.

As to vilifying a cricket club because they created a menu suitable for vegans. I expect you think the same applies to halal? The world has moved on you know and probably you blame the nasty old EU for tolerance of what do don't like but tolerance is required on all sides.

Teachers are the experts in child education. Do you believe you know better than your doctor?

PS I would be very surprised to find that schools are forcing these ideas onto children. More likely that they are just putting forward different ways of eating.

Best to get your facts right before rushing in to complain.

I’m seriously thinking my next book should be a cookery one, on the theme of eating less meat.

The way forward for committed carnivores is to learn to eke out meat with lots more vegetables, so their consumption halves at least. We can make a chicken last 3-4 meals easily. More stews, add dumplings or a pie crust. Boil up bones for soup. Add in some textured protein.

Loads of simple ideas.

If what you say is true, then it is absolutely outrageous. Children need a balanced diet, and as far as I can discern from reading up, veganism will not provide all the nutrients they need. The school has absolutely no right to indoctrinate them. The militant tendency of vegans have gone too far, and there will be a backlash soon.

I want to point out to posters supporting vegan diets that all is not well in that dept.
Almond milk being now so mass produces is causing the death of millions of bees. In the USA. especially

So you won't be doing the planet any good at all.

Better to have an all inclusive type of diet. Not all meat not all vegan.

Meals being sold as vegan are now being processed and not with always healthy ingredients.

I think children can be told where meat comes from in ann hoest way without the sentimental claptrap of dear "poor little animals"
I used to feel this way.
I felt it was wrong for me to eat "corpses"
But my daughter wanted meat so I always cooked it for her.
Even when I was a strict vegan.
Now I believe veganism is too restrictive. And that is all I will say apart from we cannot wipe out Bees. Without bees we have nothing. No crops, veggies or fruit.

JillMay I am a strict vegetarian (no eggs or milk but I do eat cheese) and I agree with your question, in fact I don't fancy any of the imitation animal foodstuff!

The thing that puzzles me about veganism is why do they have to have imitation animal products which must take a great deal of energy to produce? Why do they not eat vegetables in their natural state?

Re-reading this - I have an apology to make and the title I used for this post. It does indeed sound as though I'm attacking the vegans, and really I'm not.
I was fretting about the child and should have used a different title.
I am still concerned about the ferocity of her feelings.

I was from a farming community and during normal conversation with a girl in my class it became clear she did not realise where meat came from. Us farming yobs told her it involved killing animals, otherwise how else could you get it? She was 14 years old and was unaware of where food came from! I think she was also very upset, but really, we do all need to know what we're eating, and what is sustainable for the planet and our own wellbeing. I can't imagine teachers have time for specifically evangalizing about veganism, but they do have a duty to educate children so they can think for themselves.

When my son started school the Headmistress spoke to all the parents at the first meeting, saying "If you don't believe everything your child tells you about us, we won't believe everything your child tells us about you".

I see nothing wrong with a child of any age showing empathy towards animals and I'm in favour of telling children what meat it is they are eating - beef = cow. Pork = pig. Why disguise it, I don't understand? If a child is intelligent enough to relate this to an animal with feelings then please educate yourself and look at other foods. This is an obviously intelligent and caring child - why not embrace that rather than see it as a problem?

As a child of the '60's we didn't have meat at every meal - there are so many other really splendid options available now why not try some?