AIBU

Absolutely Vampirequeen. I maintain that nobody on here really knows what others are doing. I like to think most people would by now be aware of the social distancing rules and why they are in place?

But using judgement within the confines of those rules has to be observed also?

Too many people are quick to 'judge' without actually knowing the full facts.

People are only posting as it is in their area. Being inner city am sure is much different than being in the country with smaller communities. Not saying no need for distancing from others but it does mean that distancing is easier with bigger spaces so in that case, no size fits all!

Maybe why Gransnet is not the appropriate place to be imparital?

Doesn't mean any of us are actually wrong. So for those who jump on posters, just think! They are not you, they don't live where you are, they don't have same size houses/gardens/. Doesn't mean they are idiots!

Rules are not laws. Laws must not be broken. Guidelines and recommendations are not the same. There has to be some leeway in this situation. The rules cannot and should not be set in stone.

I'm not saying family parties where everyone is in close proximity are OK but sometimes things happen that mean it's impossible to follow the guidelines. The other day I had to break the lockdown rules and I know other people who have had to respond to the needs of others.

And that is the core, what is the purpose of the rules? If someone does something that breaks the rules, but does not break the purpose of them, in other words the infraction does not put anybody at a higher risk of getting the virus, then that is their judgement

MOnica, I find your constant explanations on why it’s OK to break the rules fascinating. It feels as though you were constantly looking for loopholes to do whatever you want.
What’s wrong with just following the rules as written? You aren’t the only one with common sense, although your constant need for loopholes makes me question that.

I normally find you such a thoughtful intelligent poster. So this is truly baffling to me.

It's just differences of opinion.
Nothing will be changing mine, however outraged some people are.

Tickingbird has a point. People didn't just report others who were trying to save lives. They reported anyone who didn't conform to the perceived norm or they didn't particularly like. A person could be denounced for what they said or didn't say, for not making the salute properly (in the denouncer's opinion) or simply for being different. The Gestapo acknowledged the help that encouraging the public to denounce others played in controlling the population. As no one knew who would or wouldn't denounce them or what they might be denounced for so they policed themselves through fear.

Reporting/denouncing your neighbours for not keeping lockdown in the way you feel they should is a slippery slope. I'm not saying that you shouldn't report someone who is breaking the law but, whilst people not keeping lockdown may be seen as offensive behaviour, they are not committing a criminal offence.

It certainly was not a disgusting and uncalled for comment and I stand by what I said.

GrannyAnnie2010, EthelJ, Bluecat, thank you - I believe you actually understand the situation.

Unfortunately, I still think a lot of people don't quite really 'get it' - at all. They apply normal ideas to an abnormal crisis.

I'm not vulnerable, paranoid, settling scores or spying. I am very concerned for others.

Many neighbours are elderly and/or have health problems. I'm concerned about them, not about disrupting a noisy, drunken barbeque party.

What others do IS my business. Call me a snitch if it makes you feel better. water off a duck's back. The police thanked me (btw, they phone to update you here, never come to your door, they're not that silly).

I can relax. I've done everything I possibly can to help - and will continue to do so.

I was thinking last night that if I were a teen in these times the chances of my abiding by the rules would be pretty much zero. Luckily my own GC are cut from different cloth and wouldn't dream of not. I think that we need to make sure that we do what we need to do and hope that others may do the same.

Washerwoman I think your daughter's experience is unfortunate, where I live, in the local town where I do my weekly shop and talking to my children, living in more urban areas, while there are occasionally small groups on the streets the vast majority of people are socially distancing.

Perhaps instead of only noticing those breaking the rules, we should lift our eyes and look at the vast majority around us everywhere who are social distancing.

www.theguardian.com/society/2020/apr/18/duty-or-score-settling-rights-and-wrongs-of-corona-shaming

This is from the Guardian, and is an article about the number of reports to the police about neighbours. It makes sobering reading.

Godwin's Law raises its ugly head again - tickingbird that was totally uncalled for!

Congratulations Washerwoman. And much love to your daughter. Just realised our next door neighbours are having a bbq. Their daughter is there. She is on mat leave. She is a nurse! ????

I shop in Tesco's during the hour allocated for older people. Everyone is good at social distancing while queuing up but, once inside, so many seem to find it impossible to follow the arrows on the floor!!

Well said washerwoman.

Well my final word. DD key worker. Out for a walk on day off.On her own.Not with partner as they live close but separately. So when not working trying to unwind on her own.Not met much loved friends.Between work days tries to keep busy at home with garden and daily dog walk. On her own
Just rung in tears. Mum why am I bothering.I feel like giving up.So many large groups out.Teenagers.Big groups of adults.No social distancing. So obviously not all from one household.
It's just occurred to me a fair few on GN are staying at home all the time.. I don't for one minute think that's easy either.. Everyone's lockdown is difficult for different reasons. But again those who say chill.Let it go..Maybe you're not actually seeing what some of us are seeing.
I've told her love you are doing the right thing,we are doing the right thing that's all we can do but cry to me if you're frustrated.I can't hug you but hopefully soon Dad and I can. Keep your chin up.Youre doing a great job. We're proud of you.Ring anytime you need to sound off.This was my equivalent but not for now. Hugs to all those who need one for whatever reason. But especially those who get it.

All I can say is. Thank god I don’t have nosy neighbours.

Well said Bluecat

I have not snitched on anyone, nor will I be doing so. Frankly I have no idea what my neighbours are doing.

However, I think that it is wrong to say that when people ignore the rules it is their own business. This lockdown is a massive exercise in trust. If we are going to slow the spread of the virus, we have to trust each other not to socialise. It is not just a matter of infecting others at, for example, a family gathering. It is about them going on to infect more people, and those infecting more, and so on....It is like ripples in a pond. We have to rely on each other not to make the first ripple.

If it takes a word from the police to stop it, then it is worth it.

Godwin's Law (also known as Godwin's Rule of Nazi Analogies) is a saying made by Mike Godwin in 1990. The law states: "As a discussion on the Internet grows longer, the likelihood of a comparison of a person's being compared to Hitler or another Nazi reference, increases.".

Grannysb.solidarity to you .In a very similar position here with frontline family workers. Unable to help with their DCs.Comments like Who cares? And If it's not harming you so what.aren't particularly helpful are they?Or show a lack of understanding of how indiscriminately this virus spreads.
I don't want to sneak or snitch
I would be very reluctant to report anything .And hope never to feel I've been put in a position where I feel I should.
So here is the only place to vent frustration.
Lets all be less judgemental. Of the neighbour who has visitors that may be for a perfectly valid reason.But also towards the worried ones for whom truly irresponsible behaviour makes an already stressful time worse.

tickingbird that was an absolutely disgusting and outrageous comment and comparison and you should feel utterly ashamed of yourself.

As for the original discussion, it really is a difficult one. There really is no excuse for all these family gatherings and parties. I posted a comment a few days ago. My DDs neighbour is a nurse at a Nightingale hospital, yet her own GD has been visiting them as her mum is having to self isolate! My DD , who is actually working in an ICU was very angry. Like everyone says, it is putting people in an impossible situation. No one wants to fall out with their friends and neighbours, but on the other hand we all want this over asap. I am glad I am not in such a position. Ps I HATE the words sneak and snitch. We are not children in a school playground!

They too would have considered it their civic duty. I’ve been isolating since before the official lockdown but I know some of my neighbours have had family round and the young woman next door has had her boyfriend staying a few days a week. I’ve seen people having conversations and standing far too close to each other. Unless it’s a large gathering then I’d take care of myself and mind my own business.

Q: Why do we have all these rules that govern our behaviour?

A: To slowdown the progression of the ccorona pandemic by reducing phyisical contact between individuals in different households.

And that is the core, what is the purpose of the rules? If someone does something that breaks the rules, but does not break the purpose of them, in other words the infraction does not put anybody at a higher risk of getting the virus, then that is their judgement,

For example, someone drives 10 miles and then only goes for a 10 minute walk. Yes, the rules are broken, but have they increased anyone's chance of infection more than if they had gone for a 1 hour walk after the 10 mile drive, which is permissible?

We need to look at the purpose of the rules and whether the infraction breaches those purposes, before getting hot under the collar. I am not condoning breaches. It is up to each individual to decide if it is worth risking the fine if caught, but question I would ask was, did what they did put anyone else at risk, if it didn't, I would shrug and say that is there decision, but if their action puta specific group of peopl at a higher risk of getting the disease then they should be taken to court.

We would love to go and help my stepdaughter and her husband by going to their house and looking after their daughters, but DH is in the vulnerable category and they are both aneathsatists working at two different East London hospitals right on the front line. She was quite low the other day when she rang her dad, as she finds that so many people dying is getting to her. Obviously as a doctor you know people will die, but this is quite different. While I understand that some people have no choice but to help family members or friends in difficult situations, others just assume that the rules don't apply to them. My stepdaughter has already lost several colleagues to this awful disease, I just want people to realise that they are not only putting themselves in danger , but also their families and NHS workers

M0nica Yes it is very rare for children to die from the virus but they are not immune to it, they can carry it. Many people, including children, are asymptomatic, which means they have it and can pass it on but have no symptoms so no one knows. Its one of the things that makes this virus so dangerous.