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AIBU

To think neighbour was right out of order. Sorry, very long!

(129 Posts)
Witzend Thu 07-May-20 10:07:59

We have some very frail, very elderly neighbours who we’ve known for many years - a lovely and formerly glamorous couple, so it’s doubly sad to see them like this.

Over recent years we’ve told them repeatedly to ring us if they need any help, but lately it’s become more frequent. He has a lot of mobility difficulties now and falling for both of them has become more frequent.

Both are unable to help the other get up, so we’ve been called on twice very recently to help, with that and other things. Before anyone says it, if there’s any question that they’re hurt we call an ambulance but most often it’s not the case, so since they’re both very light, dh has always been able to manage.

Now of course there the virus worry about seeing them - not so much from them, since they don’t go out, but because they regularly have carers in. Dh went yesterday (with gloves and mask) to help after another fall, but because the wife evidently feels bad about asking us (as she’s said so many times) she also called on another neighbour who has rarely helped before, to assist.
That neighbour, however, asked dh to come and help.

After the necessary help had been given, one of the couple phoned their son, who lives not too far away and does visit fairly often.

This other neighbour insisted on speaking to him, and right in front of the elderly couple told him in very forthright tones that it was high time they were both in a home. She then said the same to the couple, in similarly blunt tones. (All related to me later by dh.)

Should add that both have their marbles intact, and the son has often urged them to move a lot closer to him, but they have never wanted to. And TBH given their ages and states of health, I can’t see how it’d be managed now, not to mention that such a change and general disruption would probably be the beginning of the end for them. I don’t think an actual care home has ever been suggested, though.

I really did think the neighbour was right out of order to say such a thing in front of - and directly to - the couple, who were obviously distressed anyway. If she’d wanted to speak to the son and say that, she could have done so later, in private - we have his number. She’s obviously a very brisk, no-nonsense type who doesn’t mince words, but to me it was tactless and insensitive.

At the moment, and for the foreseeable future, unless there’s really no alternative, who on earth is going to be putting anyone in a care home anyway - even if they’re willing to go? Not to mention that you can’t ‘put’ anyone with mental capacity if they don’t choose to go.

Maybe I’m BU but the lack of sensitivity to a lovely couple really bothered me. The ‘forthright’ neighbour has not known the couple nearly as long as we have, so presumably just thinks of them as pathetic oldies who need to be firmly told what’s good for them, rather than the smart, active people we knew before.

Twig14 Fri 08-May-20 11:17:50

So sad to read your comments. My elderly parents both lived independently at home until February this year. Both aged 99 years my mother took ill and as I coukdnt look after my father and my DH who has a serious medical condition I sadly had to put dad into respite in a care hone. He was fine did really well then my mother cane out of hospital but not well enough to return home. She cane to stay with me almost 10?weeks ago. Then the care hone went into lockdown. Not allowed to visit then on Good Friday he was taken into hospital n died 3 days later of COVID 19. I buried him last week with all the restrictions for burials. I’m now caring for my mother. No way would I dream of mentioning going into a care home. Obviously different circumstances can arise but the complete lack of sensitivity that your neighbours showed to the elderly couple was dreadful. The couple are blessed to have suck kind neighbours as yourselves. Take care

Dealite Fri 08-May-20 11:22:23

Gustheguidedog just read your message and have to say it’s wonderful you have your independence, I’m sure it’s been a long road for you but please be kind on here. The conversation is not published in any way that identifies who we are speaking about, nor does it damage any one and certainly it doesn’t damage you. Your opinion is as valued as much as any other person on here but you don’t have to attack someone for seeking advice about concerns they have. Have a good day and keep safe x

EmilyHarburn Fri 08-May-20 11:25:23

The neighbour was out of order. The couple need to refer themselves to a physiotherapist or occupational therapist who will show them how to get up from the floor. it is a skill to learn in old age. example
firstaidforlife.org.uk/how-to-get-up-after-a-fall/
In our U3A we have been given leaflets.

I used to get my father to get himself up by positioning the stool and then telling him the moves one after another. It seemed that he could not sequence his body.

NHS advice
www.cpft.nhs.uk/Documents/Falls/Getting%20up%20from%20the%20floor%20September%202018.pdf

How to get up can also be found on utube

I get plenty of pradice getting up from falls when I get out of my hammock each afternoon. I have a stool and a kitchen kneeler, next to my hammock, which is on a frame Then when the sun goes in and I get out of the hammock I kneel, put my forearms on the stool and get up.

We can self refer to the physio in our area on line so you may be able to help them with this and print a suitable leaflet off/

icanhandthemback Fri 08-May-20 11:25:46

I would have been more tactful but I am sure your neighbour is acting out of care for these elderly people. I am in a similar position with my mother who cannot cope with her large house, keeps falling and is generally deteriorating in her mental capacities. Sometimes it takes an outsider to lay out the facts in a way that family just can't.
I don't think putting them in a home at this moment in time is feasible or advisable but maybe their son will encourage them to live in sheltered accommodation where people will be around to help rather than calling on the neighbours who might be around or not.
@gustheguidedog, there are no identifying features in Witzend's post so wind your neck in!grin

Caro57 Fri 08-May-20 11:28:49

Sounds like that radio program “Does he take sugar’ I wonder how neighbour would feel being spoken about like that in front of him/her?? A quiet chat with family highlighting the reality of the situation would be better but, at the end of the day, they have Capacity so the choice is theirs

MissTree Fri 08-May-20 11:30:53

To gustheguidedog

There’s no need to be unpleasant to someone just because you disagree.
There are kinder ways of getting your point across.

Buffybee Fri 08-May-20 11:37:47

I haven’t read any other replies but I just wanted to say how upsetting I found the interference from your other neighbour.
In fact, I’m pretty angry.
How dare she tell this couple and their son what to do.
I hope they never ask her for help again.
You and your husband are lovely people to help these two ex glamorous people. ?

allule Fri 08-May-20 11:39:19

There are several options that might help to prevent falls, like handrails and half steps, and we had great help from our local authority in getting this done. We now have live in carer for my husband, as he hated the idea of a home, and it's working very well (though I have a feeling they are not allowed to lift people after falls)
I suppose it depends on what is available locally, and perhaps the son could look into this for them....our daughters sorted things out for us, and they feel much less worried now.

Natasha76 Fri 08-May-20 11:44:54

I think your neighbours behaviour was totally inappropriate but I understand where she is coming from. My 85 year old father who only has 1 arm was continually going to a neighbours house to get a lady also 85 off the floor when she had fallen. She had her telephone in the hall and sometimes presumably in trying to answer her phone, she would fall against the front door onto the floor, meaning my father was pushing her weight and the door to try to get in. Her nephew (who was incidentally going to inherit her house) lived 20 minutes away & neighbours would call him to advise of the fall and he would just say I'll be along later. Sometimes that meant the next day.
I had no idea quite how frequently my father was helping until another neighbour told me it was 2 or 3 times a week. I was very concerned about my father falling as with only one arm he would have trouble breaking his fall or getting himself up again. I tried telling him he should call the paramedics because he could injure her in moving her. I tried explaining that if this happens without the state knowing she will remain off the radar and not get the other help she needed. In the end every time another neighbour saw my father going to this lady's house clearly to help her get up, he phoned 999. After 2 weeks of this social services had made an assessment because the paramedics had said the situation was ridiculous. She subsequently had carers coming in several times a day to cook, dress her etc. She continued to live at home for 12 months and then she had to be moved to a home because her dementia had gotten too bad to be left at home.
Sometimes you are not being kind even when you think you are.
As a P.S are in the process of trying to find a live-in companion for my FIL who has dementia & falls regularly. During lockdown he is staying with family but he doesn't want this to continue after lockdown ends, he just wants to be back in his own home so we will try to find a way to make this happen by all chipping in financially, but if we cannot find anyone suitable he will not be left alone at home.

Nannan2 Fri 08-May-20 11:57:32

Maybe you could ring the son though- and have a private word with him yourself? How far does he live from them exactly? If he comes often,why do they never ring him when they have falls? Or their carers who come in? I agree you're doing a great job helping them, but with this virus,aside from a bit of shopping for them,you really shouldnt be lifting them up etc.you have yourselves to worry about.Its the sons responsibility..Could their son move nearer them maybe,if they wont/cant move nearer to him? Or how about a sheltered housing unit,as a compromise?i realise they've got all their faculties,but its not about just that,and if these falls are getting more frequent they might have to review their independant situation a bit? Maybe you can quietly discuss their worries/ options with them?& get the son over,see how he can help more,or can come whenever needed if they fall again.?But no,the other neighbour should have said it quietly to their son,if shes got concerns.But it could have been spoken in a 'meant well' fashion,as your hubby says,maybe she was trying to shock the son into doing more?hmm

Soozikinzi Fri 08-May-20 12:04:37

Couldn’t they get help from the local authorities in the form of walking aids , rails being put up ? Perhaps a career twice a day I know it’s only for a few minutes but just to check on them . I think there does come a point when they have to accept help ? Age concerns are very good I’m sure even in these difficult times they would advise ?

Xrgran Fri 08-May-20 12:10:27

These sound very much like a couple we know but who have a son who dislikes us so for the last few times they have put us off visiting.

Now of course we can’t.

Lots of things could be done to help the couple it’s up to their son really but could you suggest anything? A simple change of furniture layout and kitchen and bathroom refurbished might prevent lots of falls. Many elderly people hang on to bits of furniture etc that cause accidents and have rugs that trip them up. If you have been inside can you make up a list of things they could change and ask son to help?

If the son lives nearby he should be the one who is coming when they need help.

Hetty58 Fri 08-May-20 12:12:18

Soozikinzi, Witzend did say that they regularly have carers in.

The neighbour was downright rude. I wonder at what age, or stage of disability, does she think that we cease being people - and become a problem to be packed off into a home?

Nannan2 Fri 08-May-20 12:20:32

You MUST bring yourself to at least tell their son that you're not prepared to help anymore- or he's not going to know how more to help them when it happens again, as he'sù going to think,oh,its ok,they've got the neighbours to help if they need it.he seems ok on the surface,but it could be a case of 'out of sight,out of mind' maybe? Or maybe he doesn't know how often its occurring?? Maybe the old couple play it down when he visits so he wont put them in a home?But if its every day now something must be done for them.Before one of them has a serious fall.hmm

Tweedle24 Fri 08-May-20 12:22:49

How dated she!? Besides being rude and insensitive, it was none of her business!
Even if she was worried about their situation, she needed to speak with the son. Poor old couple must have been terribly upset.
You are definitely not being unreasonable.

Nannan2 Fri 08-May-20 12:26:07

Yes maybe when you see the carers arrive you could 'pop over' to have a quiet chat with them about the situation? The couple could be playing down whats happening in case they do get shipped off to a home but maybe ocupational therapy can help provide more to help them!or they could look at sheltered housing,so they can still do what they want,but helps there at touch of a button if they need it?!

vanessahumphries Fri 08-May-20 12:26:18

You are amazing xx

Teddy111 Fri 08-May-20 12:29:46

You are lovely,kind people. What a worry. The ex glamorous couple must be very frightened. Thinking of you all and hoping things improve. Keep safe.

Nannan2 Fri 08-May-20 12:31:37

You have been great with them,but they do need more help now,so you must tell their son..even if only for their sake, im sure as caring people you would both (you& your husband) feel very upset if anything serious happened to them as a result of a fall.

janeainsworth Fri 08-May-20 12:57:26

Gustheguidedog I haven’t seen you on GN before, but most members don’t go in for spiteful personal attacks. Witzend hasn’t broken anyone’s confidentiality, so perhaps you could come down off your high horse.

Witzend I’ve only just seen your thread. I don’t think you’re being at all unreasonable to feel sorry that your elderly neighbours have probably been hurt by the other neighbour’s insensitive remarks. However well intentioned, there’s a time and place for everything and she obviously doesn’t recognise that.

Rosina Fri 08-May-20 13:12:04

Horrible person. It would do no harm to be reminded that age, and potentially frailty, come to us all, and how would that person feel being spoken to in such a callous manner. No, you are not being unreasonable - kindness is free and much prefereable to this kind of hateful behaviour.

Rosina Fri 08-May-20 13:14:24

Gustheguidedog what are you thinking of in being so unpleasant? No need for that at all - you need to 'wind your neck in' very smartly and stop being hurtful. Not necessary.

Jasbug Fri 08-May-20 13:46:32

It sounds a bit harsh but we don’t know what the neighbour is going through herself .If she not used to dealing with people everyday and may not be used to tempering her opinions.I lost my soulmate the day before lockdown.It is possibly a good thing that I have been in lockdown as my emotions have changed minute by minute.I know I am not reacting to things in the way I normally would Life is so short just do what you know is best and let it go ..but it’s lovely that you are a caring neighbour.

GrannyAnnie2010 Fri 08-May-20 13:48:34

I'm slightly confused. What exactly is the issue here? That the German neighbour said what was on her mind and was being judged as "forthright"? She gave her opinion, and you and your husband can either let it go or have a word with her to tell her that the delivery of her message did not go down well with you and your husband. Have I missed something?

Bluesmum Fri 08-May-20 13:51:39

I think the neighbour who came to help sounds heartless and should not be called upon in the future. I disagree when you say your lovely elderly neighbours are too old to relocate. I was 74 and my DH was 89 when we relocated to be nearer family as DH had vascular dementia and Parkinsons and, like your neighbours, he often fell. A car accident in which I injured my back meant I struggled to cope physically and I knew the situation would only get worse with ageing, so we sold our beautiful home where we had both planned to spend the rest of our days, and moved 150 miles away! I had lots of friends near our old home and several expressed serious concern my DH would not survive the disruption but I am happy to say he did and we both enjoyed a far better quality if life in our new surroundings. I made the physical move as stress free as possible for him, arranging for us to stay in a beautiful country resort whilst our new bungalow was carpeted, furniture delivered etc etc, so when we moved in two days later it really did look and feel like home and DH was very, very happen here, so do encourage your neighbours to consider this, it is never too late and you are never too old!