The NHS should not be above criticism.

So Cameron's reorganisation in 2015 (remember Tony Benn died in 2014) didn't achieve any of the objectives or introduce any of the management reorganisation people think the NHS needs. Can we agree then that the Tories threw £4billion down the drain?

Agree with sussexborn.
And the NHS is the same whichever party is in power. It’s not case of throw more money at it. That won’t solve the problem.
It needs pruning with an axe for starters. Take out a whole swathe of expensive middle management.

paddyanne that's so good to hear. My DS had a friend who needed more treatment. He was a lovely boy but needed counselling in his teenage years partly because he had difficulties coping with it all. I'm sure your GD will be fine. Treatment has improved so much.

The lack of organization and waste of vast sums of money is colossal but any efforts to improve matters leads to accusations of trying to close down the NHS. It is run in a very bullying manner by ruthless managers who want Yes people in place who daren’t ask questions. The majority of medical staff do an excellent job but are hampered by the senior administration staff who should be helping them.

Theowlandthepussycat. What a spot on piece by a clever and perceptive man.

cleft palate treatments are like most things of varying dgrees,This wee one wont need anything else done until she is about 5 she doesn't have a lip deformity so nothing cosmetic to be done its all inside her mouth

icanhandthemback I would imagine that the circumstanes you described were largely attributable to the introduction of GPs being responsible for costs, which means instead of referring for MRI or other hospital treatments, which cost the practice, they will choose the cheaper physio route.

I'd like to put a word in for admin staff. We couldn't have run our service without the dedicated and sensible admin staff that we had. Someone has to do the boring stuff, entering patient info, organising pay, personnel, even parking permits and all the 101 things that have to be done to keep a department running smoothly. It would be a colossal waste of clinical staff time to have to do all this background, yet vital work.

Well we’re not as forgiving or as blind here in north Wales Trisher, we’ll happily roast a Labour balls up as a Tory one?

The NHS is hampered by many things including too many chiefs and not enough Indians. One of the things that always stresses me out is "Treatment Paths" and only dealing with one thing at a time. I have been in many situations where the treatment path is just delaying progress until we have jumped through all the hoops and has affected every area of someone's life including the ability to work. For example, physiotherapy on a back problem is the first step regardless of the fact that the Physio doesn't always know what they are treating. My son and my daughter have both been in this position and because they were young adults they couldn't have possibly had prolapsed discs. Er, yes they could and were more likely to because it had happened to their mother due to a congenital condition. Ooh the surprise when the MRI's showed that mother was right many months down the line and after many hours of Physio for the wrong thing!
Meanwhile, that damned congenital condition means many co-morbidities but only one at a time can be dealt with despite the fact it will mean one's contribution to society will be reduced and costly.
And, don't even get me started on appointments that get lost in the post, never sent, etc. Life is just too short.
Critical care, you cannot knock it. Common sense prevails.

Gaunt47 I suppose you are unaware that cleft palate treatment requires extensive plastic surgery for years, some of which might be called cosmetic?

Pantglas2 actually I can blame the Tories for that. One of the reasons highly qualified staff will not move between the NHS regions is that when they do so they are automatically removed from the old pension scheme, which was very generous, onto the new one, which isn't. Result experienced staff don't move, so NHS Wales suffers.
I realise that those of you who voted for the party that has consistently run down the NHS refused to pay public sector workers a decent wage are now feeling guilty because you suddenly know how much an NHS is needed but this "ooh we aren't being political" is so pathetic. Everything is political. And turning out to clap on Thursdays may make you feel better but it will do F>>> all to cut waiting lists, pay staff properly or improve a service that was established by Labour has only ever improved under Labour and been persistently and steadily eroded by the Tories.
Gaunt47 having introduced an argument for privatisation you are now claiming it's only me being political! Really

Urmstongran I agree with the point you made about the NHS going back to basics. Fewer cosmetic procedures e.g., and more treatments such as those Paddyanne mentions.

You can blame the tories for everything in England - PFI waiting lists etc but I’d lay money out that no-one there has waited 3years for a hip op!

That’s the situation in north Wales where our health board has been in special measures for 5 years under a Labour administration decades old.

In the event my DH was sent by them across the border to Oswestry’s orthopaedic hospital and was done within 3 months! The brilliant consultant said he’d have been done well within the 18 week period in England.

I knew this thread would turn political because some refuse to see anything bad in their chosen party but let’s try and call it across the board!

trisher you're doing what most of us on this thread seem to agree should not happen - you're turning the NHS into a political football.

I think it depends what surgery is needed and where you are.In the past week my neighbour has had his foot amputated ,my friends GD has had a cleft palate corrected and another friends son had his appendix removed

.Emergencies are still being dealt with ,ongoing checks and tests not so much though my OH had his yearly heart check over the phone ,the purpose being if he reported anyone untoward he would be seen at the hospital by the consultant .My gynae appointment for August has been posponed but I'm sure if I think something is seriously wrong I'll be seen .

The people who work in the NHS are working their wee socks off,I have 9 nurses in my street and I can tell you they get more exhausted looking by the day..all the clapping in the world doesn't help that .

I totally agree with the OP. I used to work for the NHS at our local hospital and people wouldn’t believe just how badly these places are ran. It is totally shocking and it wouldn’t happen in normal industry. The Nightingale hospitals were supposes to be used for the patients with COVID19 yet they haven’t been. Instead the virus patients are crowded into the hospitals and other patients neglected. The whole thing is a disgrace.

lemon just look at the figures waiting lists up, failing to meet targets in many areas, shortage of nurses.
I though people on this thread were saying it wasn't 'coping'? Have you forgotten the OP?

Would that include all the NHS staff not supplied with PPE Gaunt47? and the people who have been sent home to care homes?
What on earth does that have to do with privatising the NHS? or survival?
Do you somehow imagine if you are a private patient you won't get it? Or if you do get it you won't need ICU? There is a reason there aren't any private ICUs you know.

trisher.....you do seem obsessed by the tories, it can’t be good for you.
The NHS has fared very well, both under the tories and under Labour, and are faring well just now....even with a pandemic they are coping.

I expect maybe someone got a backhander for the contract to build the Nightingale hospitals that now lie empty,

Thank you lemon but we’re not holding our breath.

It’s looking like history repeating itself . Operation cancelled twice making him very ill. So ill that needed emergency operation and ended up in ICU . Still waiting original operation and getting more and more unwell everyday .

You really couldn’t make it up . How much this has cost the NHS I fail to imagine .

trisher your post 10.31: from The Guardian website "Fifth of patients with Covid 19 may have caught it in hospital study finds". Just one of many I believe.

Urmstonegran interestingly it was John Major who first introduced PFI buildings. Labour under Blair continued to use them and many admit it was a mistake. As for who made the money-
Carillion has made £12.2m, Kier £20.7m and Interserve £90m, according to stock market filings and company documents.
lemon if you can post any evidence about how well the NHS has fared under the Tories I'd love to read it. As it is if all you can post is ridiculous comments about storms I shall take the argument as won.

trisher according to you I expect the ‘dreaded tories’ cause storms, earthquakes and anything else bad that you can think of.

Well said Gaunt47 Very good posts.??

gillybob I hope your DH receives the medical treatment he needs very soon.