Parenting - where I went wrong

I did a similar thing to 3 yr old eldest son - I was tidying the beds and he kept climbing on and bouncing. I the end I ' lost my rag' and pushed him onto the floor. He got a black eye .
People asked him what happened and he said "my Mummy did it!". I was lucky not to be reported.
I did apologise to him.

Urmstongran I did the same to my then 7 year old DD because she was really aggravating her younger brother and I was in a rush to get them to school. I remember pushing her on to his bed and giving her a wallop on her backside.
I think I cried (she didn't) and I felt guilty for years. When I confessed nearly 40 years later she said the same - she didn't remember and said "I was probably a little sh*t".

Urmstongran

Urmstongran

Thank you Smileless for your kind understanding. After I posted I must admit I had reservations that I had ‘overshared’ something I wasn’t proud of as a parent.

Been there done that got the t shirt!

I'm glad you shared Urmstongran. Your experience shows how we as parents can be too hard on ourselves, anxiously dissecting our years of parenting and worrying about how what we did or failed to do impacted negatively on our children, when that wasn't always the case.

Thank you Smileless for your kind understanding. After I posted I must admit I had reservations that I had ‘overshared’ something I wasn’t proud of as a parent.

That's lovely Urmstongran.

I’ve never heard of that saying before LadyBella - ‘never bow to your cradle’. Poignant and interesting.

Many years ago I slapped our eldest daughter hard on her upper thigh & it left a mark. It mortified me for YEARS afterwards. It was so out of character for me to ‘lose my rag’.

A few years ago, sitting with our girl, I brought up that awful incident. She had been about 9y old at the time.

Anyway, I told her how, even after all these years, how much that loss of control had upset me and I (very belatedly) asked her forgiveness.

Oh .. the RELIEF I felt when (a) she genuinely couldn’t recall it and (b) posited that ‘if you had done that mum, I probably deserved it for being a little sh*t because let’s face it, you were always so loving and sweet’.

Redemption - even after more than 30 years was balm to my soul. One less thing for me to regret in the wee small hours...

I was young, had no extended family in the area, not a lot of money, unsuitable accommodation and went to work as well as trying to bring up my children. Ok I had my husbands help but 35 years ago a fathers duties were considered different to those of today. I admit I made mistakes but my children were always well looked after, well fed and clothed and most of all knew they were well loved.

Lady Bella. Snap!

Yes I think it is MissA, something that needs to be taken into account.

I suppose our ability to be what is considered to be a good parent is also swayed by the other events in our lives at that time.

MissA.

LadyBella smacking was considered an appropriate form of punishment so if it was part of your childhood experience, and you didn't regard it as in any way unacceptable or abusive, it follows that you would have used the same method, and would have done so regardless of your personal circumstances.

Maybe your children have forgotten "how uptight" you were a lot of the time or maybe it isn't something they bear you any resentment for.

You could talk to them about how things were when they were younger and ask them to forgive you. Even if they don't think you have anything to be forgiven for, they may just appreciate you wanting to talk about it.

I'm not sure past issues are really such a problem unless they are still present issues. Demonstrating that positive change has happened could be enough and forgiven without apology

My mum did apologise for being too strict on us, but it wasn't really an issue.
We just knew to toe the line or mum would "kill us"

I remember the times I shouted and smacked and regret it bitterly now. I was tired and impatient and in an unhappy marriage. But I was brought up being smacked and thought that's what you did. Now, in old age, I am calm, very patient and am a much nicer grandparent than I was a parent. However my adult children are well-balanced -I just hope they forget how uptight I was a lot of the time. Sometimes I wonder if I should tell them how I felt at the time and ask for forgiveness. But my old mother in law had a saying, "Never bow to your cradle."

Perhaps discussion about narcissist parents and abusive parents would be more appropriate on another thread. There's at least one thread in particular on this estrangement forum, where these issues are regularly referred too.

Holyhannah I have also come to the realisation that abusers know they are abusers but have struggled to make others understand my view on that. Previously having been a person determined to see the best in everyone I understand why they don't understand my view on that lol

When I was just a person describing bad situations with my mum to people, as they came up... Not really delving into history... I was always told that I was right to feel the way I did about it.

As soon as I estranged some people's views tipped over and I lost their sympathy or altogether was judged and invalidated by them.

Granted this was not always due to the circumstances and more due to society held beliefs so, it wasn't necessarily that they were bad people doing it.

So rightly or wrongly I feel that an estranged child gets more judgement than a child who has the same problems and doesn't estrange.

So I totally agree with you that scapegoats like us are the most aware and most likely to make a huge effort to avoid repeating mistakes we experienced.

That doesn't mean we don't or won't make them to learn not to or that we won't make different ones.

It doesn't mean we think we are any kind of perfect.

Starblaze -- "The truth is that not all parents are doing their best." -- No kidding. I think where abusers are concerned they don't even try for 'good'.

My Narc was famous for her mantra of, "I'm trying/doing my best." and YET when, as a pleading child, saying that I was "doing MY best" I was told/informed that MY 'best' was not "good enough".

There was no 'manual' to being a "good child" no matter how hard I tried and looked for 'it' and yet, the excuse for not being a "good parent" is a lack of manual? I call that a cop-out. Does not "common sense" come into play at some point?

Does the concept of not doing the abusive stuff that your own parents did not occur? Clearly for some, the answer is, "No." Or is it a case of, "Well, now it's 'my turn' to be 'in charge'/control."?

People who feel powerless as children (abuse victims) can go one of two ways, those that despise and refuse to emulate their abusers (Scapegoats) or the 'perfect' people who now that they are 'adults' get to act/behave like their abusers because who is going to stop them?

Good parents are "in charge/in control"... of their own emotions and behaviors. Good parents don't blame their bad behavior on their child(ren). Good parents don't miss-use their power/control of those in their care to regain/'fix' their own childhood trauma.

I have been asked if I am a "perfect parent". Thankfully, no. I was raised by a "perfect parent" (just ask my 'mom') and in her quest for "perfection" all she did was create more imperfections...

Another mantra of my 'mom' was, "You think you're so perfect don't you..." insert snotty tone I look at that now and knowing it's projection think, "You sure DO don't you... Even though you know you sure are NOT. So instead of improving, so you don't have to face your gross imperfection(s)/create more reasons to feel guilt/shame when you abuse, you blame ME and my behavior for how you treat me. That should make You feel bad about yourself."

I have often grappled with, "Do abusers know they are abusers?" Yes. I know now that they DO. But their denial is deeper and longer then the river.

That was a lovely thing to say to your s.i.l. Ginny. How sad that his mother must have thought that wealth and material possessions could compensate for love.

I wonder if she had been raised by nannies with little input from her own parents and didn't resent that, so didn't think it was wrong to be the same type of parent.

I don't see estranged children being "the most frowned upon, the most questioned, the most ignored, sneered at and invalidated".

This thread is full of examples of parents who have and continue to do their best. Our parents made mistakes, we make mistakes and our children will make their mistakes too.

You don't have to be an estranged adult child to be "the ones trying not repeat the same mistakes" with your own children. The vast majority are doing the same thing.

Ginny42 quite often we have to grieve the loss of a bad parent, sometimes it happens on estrangement and sometimes it happens on their passing. Thats because we grieve the parent we should have had. We grieve the loss of what we needed. What every child needs.

Parenting is the most important job out there and it comes with little training and inherant skill sets vary. All parents know what constitutes a good parent though. Most bad parents deny being bad ones however and are very good at hiding it and this damages the ability of wider family, people in authority and anyone else in the child's life recognising abuse or neglect.

When we look at films and movies etc, often when a bad parent is portrayed it's the extreme. Yes they exist but parenting is a spectrum, not good and obviously bad only.

So we have to grieve the idea that society sells of good parents despite the fact that our parents ignored it.

We have to face the people who say "you only have one mother/father" and "they will be gone one day" and "it's wrong of you to deny your children of family" from people who didnt even know our parents but they cannot understand in the face of an ideology that parents are all "doing their best".

The truth is that not all parents are doing their best. Not all parents are being accountable for all the ways they barely tried let alone didn't do their best. Relationships are breaking down because of it.

There are support groups online with hundreds of thousands of adult children struggling to come to terms with bad parenting, abusive parenting, neglectful parenting and the real harm that has done to them.

These are only the adult children who have not coped with abuse, bad parenting or neglect by calling it "normal" and going on to abuse, be a pad parent or neglect their own children.

Estranged children like me are the most frowned apon, the most questioned, the most ignored, sneered at and invalidated but we are the ones trying to not repeat the same mistakes with our own children anyway.

I am sad reading this thread this morning. I've had to comfort my SiL this week on the death of his mother, who was a difficult person to live with and certainly the children had a hard life growing up. Pots of money, poverty in terms of love. Nannies brought them up really. I have wept before today at the stories of their upbringing.

Her six children were distressed at the funeral apparently (I wasn't able to be present). I couldn't think what on earth to say to him, when he tried to tell me how he felt at her passing aged 96 years. He hasn't forgiven her yet and she had been - I think 'neglectful mother' would describe her best.

I simply said 'she was the best mother she knew how to be'. Not sure he felt comforted, but it was all I could think of. I hope in time he may be able to forgive.

I had lost both parents by the time I was 26 years old. That was hard, but how relieved I am reading some of the posts this morning, that whenever I think of them, I remember their laughter.

MissAdventure -- In my reply of Sat 05-Sep-20 04:38:39 I never mentioned You.

"I'd just like to point out that I don't "yell and scream", so that it doesn't somehow become something that is repeated as something I've said. Thanks." -- I never said you did/do or anyone else. It's called a general statement aimed at anyone minding minor children.

I try to use 'general statements' because direct replies/observations of what people actually SAY gets called Me "judging".

Someone said to Me, "HolyHannah, you may not realise it but your comments don't paint you in a very good light." -- That is not a comment on the validity of what I said. That is a judgement of which I was being chastised for doing myself (if that is even what I was doing/did). Who decided that my comments don't "paint you (me) in a very good light"?

I echo that response/mentality/belief that, "your comments don't paint you in a very good light" -- And never do comments/replies etc. to Me 'sound like'/mirror my Narc 'mom'... Well, actually they DO...

So, there is no "polite"/'correct' way to say, "IF You talk/'sound like'/behave like my 'mom' who IS a diagnosed Narc... YOU might be the 'problem'."

That made me laugh MissA. I remember my mum saying things to me and saying she sounded just like my gran, and me saying things to our boys and saying I sounded just like her.

DS quotes things back to me too, usually beginning with "now mum, remember when you'd say ..........".