Cleaner

Lots of assumptions going on. Firstly, because the cleaner says she doesn't pay tax, this doesn't mean she is 'dodging' it, it is more likely that she doesn't earn enough. Secondly, she is allowed, in fact encouraged, to work while claiming top up benefits, it isn't the case where you work or don't work. Thirdly, very few people with a family are able to work on minimum wage (let alone below it) without getting some sort of top up. Fourthly, the person who said that £12 an hour was more than she was paid as a manager; you were on an annual salary, the cleaner isn't, she only gets paid for working, not for traveling, no holidays, no sick pay. She is unlikely to be working more than 4 or 5 hours a day if she has school age children. I used to own a cleaning company, my staff were all employed, got 5.5 weeks paid holiday, sick pay, maternity pay, and travel expenses, they were insured as were the clients' homes and I can assure you that even leaving out the overheads and my small salary, everyone should be paying around £12.50 an hour minimum. If you are unhappy about the potential for 'benefit fraud' then pay direct to the cleaner's bank account.

Using an agency may make you feel better but it is no assurance that the rules are not being broken. Dodgy agencies abound, anything where payment is made in cash are suspect, street markets, taxis, cleaners, gardeners, etc. Most independent cleaners are working within the rules, if I was looking for tax dodgers I’d look much higher up the scale.

For people who think it's okay to claim benefits and work on the side and not pay tax, where do you think the money comes from to pay for the services you're always complaining about losing and other welfare payments? From the cash in hand person to the big companies or rich individuals cheating the system, it's still wrong.

What a sanctimonious lot! Go through an agency and pay £12 per hour that will make you feel better I am sure. People do what they can to get by she can work and not pay tax if she earns so little it doesn't qualify on benefits or not.

Give the woman a break, how does your sister know she doesn’t pay tax anyway . Could be as simple as someone saying “ do you pay tax” cleaner says no, because as others have said she doesn’t earn enough to do so.

widgeon3 - a lot of cleaners are self-employed so that makes them responsible for their own taxes.

Wow!! As a matter of fact, the £7 per hour is more like £10/11per IF she paid tax. Agree, it seems low, but don't be so quick to judge. Sometimes you make people afraid or insult them if you ask about their personal status. Lots of virtue signaling here.

We have a young Romanian woman as a cleaner. She's a single Mum with 2 young children. Their father has 'gone'.
We pay her £12.50 ph. She does a good job.
We have given her several extras.
She has 3 other cleaning jobs.
She seems to be able to get free health care and schooling for her children, but I wonder if there will be any changes after Brexit?
Does anyone know?

Haven't read all the posts, my husband who hired our cleaner, pays her £12 an hour, £7 an hour seems fairly low. He, my husband always paid her during the lock down when she couldn't come. She offloaded an introductory woman/intermediary who introduced her and who was skimming off a couple of pounds from the women she secured work for, that was a few years ago when she had very little English, she's practically fluent now. Her and her husband work damn hard, they've managed to buy their own house. We've no idea whether she declares her money or not, we are not her judge and jury, we do know we completely trust her in our home, enough to leave her a key when we went away.

Shazam . £30 isn’t expensive for a gardener after all it took you four hours and they did it in half an hour because they’re younger and probaky quicker. I always say pay for stuff you can’t do as it’s a task less for yourself.

Yes travelsfar agree with you.

As a comparison. I don’t have a cleaner. But do pay a gardener to sort hedges, lawn, etc. Not a massive plot. He and another guy do it in half an hour. When son and I did it, took us three/four hours. And messed up my hand in process. I pay him £30 cash. Think expensive, but fairly sure your cleaner is under-valuing her services. Again, as I say, as a comparison.

Great answers everyone. I'll let my sister know what you all said.

grannyrebel7
If the lady is on benefits then her NI will be paid automatically. It's probably the case that she's asking £7 an hour so she does not go above the earnings threshold allowed for benefit claimants. However, there is nothing to stop you making up her wage with a 'gift'. You could give her £5/6 worth of groceries each week. This would no longer be slave labour.

£7 an hour is very low - £10 should be the lowest per hour.

£7 an hour is far too low. I pay mine £15 an hour and am happy to do so. It doesn’t matter whether she’s 17 or 47, £7 is still too low. You have the nerve to say that because she might not declare her earnings that this has put you off employing her . She’s clearly desperate to earn some money so let your sister do the decent thing and pay this woman a proper wage.

Pay a proper and fair hourly rate then your cleaner will be able to pay taxes, if she earns enough, plus pay her NI contributions which will ensure she gets a pension later on.

''Out of curiosity, I looked up the rules on the Government website. It is actually the responsibility of the employer to pay any tax or NI. There should also be a formal contract. There are also rules about holiday and sick pay. It is quite complex and I know most people do not bother with all that. If you want life to be simpler, employ through an agency which deals with all the legalities.''
I'm sorry, I copied this from someone's response but cannot now see its orogin in this thread
Out of interest I rang ACAS, when a new would-be cleaner came for an interview and she demanded top rates of pay + holiday pay monthly + 1 week's pay per month towards sick pay This was for 3 hours work weekly which the person I spoke to at ACAS said was not required in law
My previous cleaner who had asked for, and received £10 an hour earlier this year decided to put her pay requirement up by 50% during lockdown. As she had little experience I turned her down
Her replacement asked for £13 an hour which seems to be about the going rate for cleaning.

I do not feel that I should be required to take on the role of tax collector on the government's behalf Cheques, it seems, will be phased out; the rental of a machine to process a card payment is too great so I can see no future, when cheques go ,in playing her in anything other than cash
As with cOVID, does anyone actually work anything out with all the full ramifications?

estimated benefit fraud 1 billion per annum
estimated corporate business fraud 100 billiion per annum
plus what goes on in the black economy and crime proceeds,
a single mum trying to get by on benefits ,c'mon....

I pay my wonderful cleaner £10 an hour - which she declares.
I wouldn’t mind if she didn’t though.

I worked in a gift shop, never got a pay rise in over 4 yrs. She paid me cash, said it worked better for her, of course it did not paying national insurance, etc. That was my job, didn't claim benefits and lucky if I got more than a day a week, normally the busy Saturday that I worked on my own. Worked out at £6.93 an hour, I'm 54 years old, but lucky I've savings I can use. She was nasty one day cos I couldn't work, so I just left as it wasn't worth it. Paying a cleaner £7.00 an hour isn't fair, it's hard work as I've been one, she would need to be on benefits to survive cos she couldn't on a small wage like that....sorry

Builders and other tradesmen have for years been quoting two prices for a job, one if paid by cheque or bank transfer, another lower price if you pay in cash. Anyone who pays a cleaner £7 an hour should be thoroughly ashamed of themselves. I hope she gets a very generous Christmas bonus.

Like a number of you on this post, I always believed in being honest and above board - especially when it came to tax and NI.

Now, with this Government, they have given us the opportunity to do whatever we like to bend, or even break laws - obviously in limited ways. So in the end, it's entirely down to personal choice now - isn't it?

I agree that £7.00 is terribly low. Until recently I had a cleaner who I paid £13.50 an hour. She's gone to work fulltime for Tesco and I'm now using a company who charge £16.80 an hour (£14.00 plus VAT). I pay for three hours per week, so if they send three people, they work for 1 hour. If they send two, an hour and a half. But I know that everything is being done by the book - tax, NI, VAT.

£7 an hour for any type of work is a pittance but this person has admitted that she is on benefits and doesn't want to pay tax so won't declare her earnings! That's illegal and immoral and a bloody insult to all of us who pay our taxes! Whichever way you look at this, we tax payers are paying this woman's benefits and she is defrauding the system! Disgraceful behaviour but so is the OP sister for employing her, she is complicit in this fraud as she, as an employer, should be paying employers NI contributions!