Neighbour’s house has become a HMO

MissChateline

For 15 years we were very good friends and next door neighbours. She visited and ate and drank regularly at our house. We shared confidences and circumstances. Suddenly her circumstances changed she lost her job, made poor financial decisions and got into difficulties. Other employment ideas fell apart. Despite all of the support and assistance given by myself and other direct neighbours she became nasty and abusive to all of us. She started making wild accusations about each one of us and generally trying (and failing) to turn neighbour against neighbour. At one point one neighbour was so concerned about her circumstances and mental health that she contacted our neighbours mother who immediately came up north to try to help. We all know the mum and have hosted her and her daughter for Xmas get togethers. So we do know the circumstances both financial and personal. It is only in the past couple of months when the accusations became more outrageous and nasty that each of us individually decided that not engaging with her screaming matches and general unpleasant behaviour was the best option.
We are a friendly terrace with a shared right of way at the rear of our houses. But we are all concerned about fire safety in particular.

When you hurt- you hurt.

In other words when things went wrong and it hurt her, the only line of defence was to hurt others.

Hetty is right.

I wouldn’t chance it though, not when you have to be neighbours. In the first instance. I would, as I said earlier, investigate with the council. As for the fire risk, that’s always going to be there, wherever you live, and whoever your neighbours are, unless you’re in a detached house, and even that’s not certain, if you’re close to the others. Many landlords these days won’t allow smoking indoors, which of course is the biggest cause of house fires. I personally think a house fire is less likely than years and years of animosity with a neighbour, when all it took to avoid was a little investigative work. I wish you all the best MissC.

Toadinthehole, she'd have no idea why she was being checked. Even if she suspected being reported, she wouldn't know who did it. I'd have safety concerns - as I said previously.

BlueBell, I wouldn’t be commenting on this situation if I didn’t know the facts. My neighbour has told me that she is letting out her attic room to a couple and I regularly chat to this couple. I was out in my garden area when the young lass moved into the cellar yesterday. Her cellar adjoins my kitchen and I can both hear and see her sorting her belongings out. The owners bedroom is on the other side of the wall to my bedroom and I can both hear he coughing and see her smoking out of the open bedroom window.
I know the family and the family history and know full well that these are not family members.

Miss chatelaine, be strong, don`t bury your head in the sand as some here would advocate. How can you sleep at night while being worried about fire?

There’s loads of harm done if you’ve got to live next door to them Hetty. All that’s happened at the moment, is she’s rented some rooms out, with no problems as yet. Why would you make some?

Personally I would stay out of it, especially as you don't know any facts and are swayed by your bad relationship with her. If you report her and it becomes apparent that all her boxes are ticked, or even if they aren't it may just cause you more future issues.

BlueBelle, no, you don't need facts to report somebody.

It's up to the local council and benefit fraud department to establish the facts.

Suspicion is quite enough. If she is innocent - then no harm done.

Isn’t this a landlady/ lodger agreement? Different to HMO’s. It does differ from region to region, but here, in our highly populated town of students ,we’ve had lots to do with their housing, even having one shut down due to breach of regulations. I would check with your council, but don’t report her yet, even anonymously, she could guess it’s you, as you’ve not been on such good terms lately. Do some investigations first, and then you’ll be better armed with information if and when you do speak to her.

suziewoozie there’s no rubbish being spoken by me, you need facts before you can start reporting people the poster has not spoken to the woman since a falling out earlier in the year so where are her facts coming from ?
How does she know she has turned her attic into accommodation for two people ?
How does she know she has refurbished the cellar for a lady ?
Be a bugger if they are family ?
How does she know she’s still collecting benefits ?
There’s either a lot more to this story than came out in the original post or shes jumping the gun

For 15 years we were very good friends and next door neighbours. She visited and ate and drank regularly at our house. We shared confidences and circumstances. Suddenly her circumstances changed she lost her job, made poor financial decisions and got into difficulties. Other employment ideas fell apart. Despite all of the support and assistance given by myself and other direct neighbours she became nasty and abusive to all of us. She started making wild accusations about each one of us and generally trying (and failing) to turn neighbour against neighbour. At one point one neighbour was so concerned about her circumstances and mental health that she contacted our neighbours mother who immediately came up north to try to help. We all know the mum and have hosted her and her daughter for Xmas get togethers. So we do know the circumstances both financial and personal. It is only in the past couple of months when the accusations became more outrageous and nasty that each of us individually decided that not engaging with her screaming matches and general unpleasant behaviour was the best option.
We are a friendly terrace with a shared right of way at the rear of our houses. But we are all concerned about fire safety in particular.

PamelaJ1

It sounds to me that she has taken in lodgers. If the attic room was a bedroom then it probably complies with building regs.
The cellar room sounds a bit dodgy though.
You can earn £7500/yr without paying tax under the rent a room scheme. I have no clue how that may or may not impact on benefits.

I thought about trying to increase my income by renting out a room - Benefits will only let you keep £20 a week so really not worth changing your life for!

Crazy though people are crying out for accommodation, yet if you try to help and try and increase your own income as it is just not enough, you can't!

MissChateline - how do you know any regulations are being breached?
Just wondering...

MissC there is complete rubbish being posted on here by a few posters. I hope you don’t take any notice of it and just get on and report the issue for further investigation by the council. As someone else posted, not to do so is actually very irresponsible.

If you are barely speaking to her, how do you know she hasn’t informed the relevant authorities?
Anyway as has been said you can report possible benefit fraud anonymously.
The multi occupancy is more concerning due to possible fire risk, so I think should be reported.

If you are not talking to her how do you know all this information you said you have fell out and not spoken to her for months you seem to know everything from her financial situation to her sleeping arrangements HOW ?
How do you know which bedroom the owner is sleeping in how do you know about refurbishment of the cellar and the attic How do you know she is still claiming benefits ? You seem to know an awful lot for someone you don’t speak to
I d say mind your own business and stop looking out the window second guessing unless something comes to light that proves all this is really happening

Four people living in a two bedroom house with a cellar and an attic doesn’t sound like over crowding

Just reading in my local paper, headed," New Warning over House Fire Deaths ".
Candles being used for light and heating where there is fuel poverty.
No batteries in smoke alarms. No proper exits, no extinguishers or fire blankets where there are families. Smokers not extinguishing cigarettes, falling asleep with a cigarette after a night out.

I don't know how some people can sleep knowing that their accommodation is a fire hazard.

Doing nothing is irresponsible when your safety, and other's safety may be at risk.

It's our civic duty to report any suspected benefit fraud too.

'Leave well alone' is just a cop out!

Going by this article, it is very likely an HMO
www.thetenantsvoice.co.uk/advice_from_us/what-is-an-hmo/

Of course you must report her - it’s a potential health and safety risk that could impact your safety.

There are several areas of the living arrangements that are a cause of concern here; as EV quite rightly points out, if the 3 people are unrelated and are sharing toilet and bathroom facilities, that's a worry with the present COVID restrictions. The attic room is a fire risk unless it has a fire escape. The cellar should also have a fire escape. As for your neighbour claiming benefits whilst having other people in her house.... That's for you to decide whether to report her or not.

I agree that an informal chat asking for advice from your local council would be a good start.

For many years I knew the landlord of many HMOs. He was fined many times. When he was threatened by the council as in we will shut this house down his attitude was: go ahead, you house them or have even more homeless on the street.
It's not as simple as people think. There are so many of these houses that councils are between a rock and a hard place.

Ring your local council and just ask to have a chat about it. It doesn't have to be a complaint just a question about what is happening. Planning officers are trained to handle such things and will keep your name out of it. There are all sorts of things that could be wrong with what has happened, but they will know what applies to where you live.

The people living there sound like licensees to me if there are just three of them.

Leave well alone. You don’t know all the facts.