Is it becoming impossible for some older people to manage their affairs independently?

I went to a corner shop which is my local and spent £12. Gave a £20 note but was told I needed to use my debit card as there was not enough cash in the till. Cashless society?? I wanted the change so I could give my GC £1 each.

Why didn’t you contact the candidates - they’d never be more motivated?

well i tried to ring up about the postal vote again, 10am.
i think i got the same person on the phone.
i could hardly hear her, and i think she was hoping i would just go away, which i did eventually.
i asked where the completed forms had to be returned to. i had to ask this about 6 times before she would deign to tell me.
i said i could deliver by hand.
she kept telling me it was too late as the post took 5 days.
she said the back office would not send out any forms now.
i said can't i take the chance, post often arrives quicker.
back office says no. this was the answer to everything.
wonder if her name was waynetta slob.
asked to speak to a supervisor. there wasn't one.
i found it quite depressing. the attitude more than anything.
then i had to leave to get 2nd jab.
trying to forget about 10am now; just to update you.

AAgh, just posted on the wrong page, please ignore my message above
I did have experience of the problem in the OP,with my Dad who wouldn't even have a credit card let alone do stuff online, it was cash or cheques to the end of his days, when he wanted to close an account in his latter days, with a broken hip, hardly able to walk, he had to go to the building society in a taxi and someone had to come out and see him, I thought that was dreadful

My Mum was still doing online ordering groceries when she was 93, although there were times when she wasn't well she needed help. I'm not yet pension age and up until just before I got married it was possible for married women to pay a 'married women's stamp, it's not long since a woman's income went on her husband's tax return, but you weren't allowed to see it unless he let you, and I know women under the age of 94 who were not allowed to learn to drive, had to rely on lifts from their husband, most bills were in the man's name, I have even missed off a joint account by the building society, suddenly realised I wasn't on the statements, I had to prove that it was a joint account.
I have also known women who learned to drive after losing their husband and have coped with taking on all the life admin. My now ex-husband had to learn how to take a car for it's MOT, insure it, set up a computer, and most of the rest of the stuff that I had always had to do, I presume he did learn. I myself, it just got easier after he left as didn't have to try to involve him in decisions on things like utilities, new stuff for the house, insurance, that he was not interested in, but would complain if you didn't consult him. Apart from online banking, I had to have a bit of persuasion to do that and still will not do it on my phone, and only fully sorted it out when covid hit.

I’ve reread your post which I thought understood, until I read the last sentence and now I’m unsure of the question!

I am extremely hard of hearing. I can usually manage online, but so very often the only alternative to that is a phone number.
Then what do I do?
I asked my doctors surgery to contact me by email or text, I included my mobile number, with Text only against it. I had four phone calls, 2 landline, 2 mobile before I was sent a text.

Things do move really quickly, you're right, Nananananal. I think it's important to stay up to date, but inevitably there will be things that pass us by and I'm not saying that everyone should have to engage with every new development that comes along.

Your example of the friend who complains about being left out when she has made no attempt to be included is exactly what I was getting at - people seeing it as a 'right' to insist that their preferences are catered for. It's not reasonable when it is simply a preference, and I don't think that everyone has a responsibility to make everything accessible by all means possible - it's good of you to take the time to write letters, but a bank manager (if such people exist these days) won't have time to write to some customers, telephone others, and so on, when a computerised system is quicker and easier.

I agree about the way in which some firms assume that we all have access at all times, though, Shandy. Even when that is usually the case, it is a massive pain when the internet goes down, or we are without a computer/device for any length of time. It would be far better customer service if they has a back-up plan for cases like yours (particularly as the situation had arisen because they sold you a duff product )

I can’t help thinking that almost everybody under the age of about 80 must have had to use a computer at work. Thinking back I had computers in my classroom linked to the internet over 20 years ago.

I am so glad I am of an age where I can just about use a computer and do online retail/banking etc. A friend of mine ('only' 76) has refused all along to get a mobile phone or computer and she complains a lot about 'being left out'.

I still write her letters and telephone (she lives miles away) but it is hard to get her to understand the extra effort people and companies have to go to to get and keep in touch with her

As with 'old money' and 'pounds and ounces' we are all having to adapt and move with the times. Yes it is unfair for much older people to be expected to get into the digital age especially with little or no support. Life is moving on apace and if we want to stay independent we have to find some way of keeping up

Friends, neighbours and relatives are essential in keeping our older people connected so thank you to all those who care and support their older friends and neighbours, we may all be needing you one day!

I believe there is a form called a Permanent Agent form from the post office. Form number P6163. Phone 03457223344.This enables a friend or neighbour to collect a pension without having to give them the pensioners PIN number. They are allocated a separate PIN number to be used with the pensioners card which only allows them access to a certain amount of money, not the whole account.

I have a printer, but my new Lenovo laptop wouldn't turn on last year (found out the Motherboard had stopped working when it was returned).

It was still under warranty at only three months old, and they said they would email me a return label and details for collection. I said I was phoning because the laptop wouldn't turn on, so couldn't print my emails.

They were really taken aback and said could I go 'to the library or a neighbour' - as it was at the start of lockdown this was impossible. Finally found an app on my Iphone, but almost everyone, everywhere, assumes you are connected nowadays.

I do my mums shopping online at Sainsbury’s. (She is 95 and housebound)They have now gone paper free and send the receipt to me. I asked if she could have a paper receipt as she likes to know what she’s paying. Sainsbury’s said no so I have to write out the receipt by hand of everything she’s ordered and send it to her by post. I don’t have a printer so I am creating more paper by doing this.

Whether we like it or not, the post office we grew up with will soon be a thing of the past.

Yes, it can be difficult adjusting to the digital world, and not everybody wants to.

What you need, and obviously have not got, is a way for those who do not want a computer, or who cannot afford one to opt out of the digital world and still receive all official communications by post.

This is a matter you all need to badger your MPs into securing.

This can be done, it has been in Denmark. Here too, in pre-Covid 19 days, the libraries ran courses helping those, who were all at sea about computers, learn to use them to deal with the many and varied things that are easier if you use the Internet than if you don't.

A lot of those who had said they would never use a computer found these courses helpful and changed their minds about computers and the Internet.

Those who either won't or can't move with the times. only need to register their desire with their municipality to receive post in the old fashioned way from tax authorities, government and local government.

Galaxy

I think the answer is to provide the means to overcome those issues not exclude them from something that the rest of society can access. So we shouldn't be saying well there are people who cant afford a phone/laptop so they should be able to do it non digitally, we should be ensuring those people can have access to technology.

Sorry, my post was badly worded - I should learn not to post in a hurry. I agree that everyone should be able to have access - my point is that those who simply 'don't want to' pay online or use the Internet in various ways should not be able to hold back the rest of us.

I know a couple of Luddites who expect everything from knitting groups to council tax payments to use outdated and cumbersome methods because they 'can't' use Facebook, or 'don't see why they should' use online banking, and I do think that this is unreasonable. These people both have smartphones and computers in their homes, with broadband connections that are used for things they want to access, so it is neither inability nor accessibility that is stopping them.

It is possible to have a FB account that is never used for anything other than to access things like group announcement pages, which are free to use and easy to access, and I don't see why someone's reluctance to get one should trump the convenience of the rest. Similarly, it costs a fortune for councils to have payments made in person or over the phone, so I don't see why this should not be the default.

I do, however, think that there should have been more credit given to the Labour promise in the last election campaign to get free broadband rolled out to everyone. It was a very democratic policy, but of course it was ridiculed. Johnson seems to be belatedly realising how important it is, so maybe we will see internet access made more widely available. It is already a requirement for benefits claimants to access the Internet, so there should definitely be easy and cheap access, both for them, and for vulnerably housed people and those on low incomes (although I would prefer a living wage to be set at a level that would cover a broadband contract, but that's another thread).

I also think that there should be some exceptions to default online activity. My MIL, for instance, is in her 90s and has never used a computer. I'm not saying that she would be incapable, but I don't think that the effort involved would be worth it at her age. People with disabilities or learning difficulties may also have problems accessing online options, and this also needs to be addressed.

Jaxjacky

It’s the same throughout local authorities suzie legacy/bespoke systems with in house or contracted out support staff. I agree with you, but it would be a large ££££ job, driven by central government. I don’t know if the electoral roll software is all the same either, which I assume, the E system interfaces to.

I was referring more to systems making it clear that if you’ve no internet/ printer you ring your la and are sent the forms plusreturn envelope. And one colour polling card for in person and one to notify you’ve a postal vote. I know all the actual forms are the same but the systems are either not clear or not being implemented properly ( see welbecks experience for example) I wasn’t talking at all about a centralised system just consistency in application between las. Only referring to E btw

I thought it was daft I couldn't just ring an actual human being and ask, I imagine this differs local authority to local authority too

Whilst I am a roll, the other thing that annoys me is 'the local offer'.......Look on your local authority for your 'local offer' How is using language like this accessible? Do any of you understand what it means?

It’s the same throughout local authorities suzie legacy/bespoke systems with in house or contracted out support staff. I agree with you, but it would be a large ££££ job, driven by central government. I don’t know if the electoral roll software is all the same either, which I assume, the E system interfaces to.

Don’t you think it’s daft that there are so many different systems ( just talking about E here). Why not a standardised one.

petunia - I love that word "automagically"! I think I will have to add it to my vocabulary!!

We usually vote by post- first we get a PINK card with our details on and states for when voting is (may this time i think it mentions- but then nearer time we get a WHITE actual voting card/form with return envelopes- the pink one is just to acknowledge that they have us down for postal voting.it doesnt include much else by way of info.

P.S. I have friends and family who are totally computer literate but still ask me to look up things for them. It doesn’t bother me as it only takes a minute or two, but I don’t understand why they need me to do it for them.

Come on Helgawills, she is 94. She offers you money because she hates having to ask favours and all she can do is try to pay for your help.

I have been using the postal vote option for a few years now. I believe I had to sign a form to start with so they could check via Council Tax/whatever they have me registered with to ensure it was actually me. They still send a normal "poll card" through the post but it is then followed up with an envelope inside an envelope with a voting slip you then have to seal inside the envelope provided and then post on. (Sounds like a lot on envelopes but she will see when she gets it). It is not as daunting as it sounds!!
I doubt there is, or ever will ever be, an option to vote online since this would be so open to abuse. Good Luck.

It obviously depends on your local authority as I didn't get a yellow card like a previous poster.

It is true about printers though. My Mum was saying she has issues with return labels to send things back as they don't have a printer. She said she was told by one company the post office can print them off for you but the post office said they don't do it (this is one of my frustrations about life tbh, one person tells you one thing, then the other person says no, then you are back to square one)