Is it becoming impossible for some older people to manage their affairs independently?

This is similar to what they did with Premium Bond wins. They stopped sending cheques out and wanted everyone to enter their bank details online. My FIL is not on the internet and has no interest in getting a “machine”. I managed to do his partner’s bank details however I could do his as at some point his partner must have set up an account for him with NS&I and she now has advanced dementia. This meant him trying to get through by phone to give his bank details to prizes could be paid directly to him.. so now I get emails telling me of her prizes and he gets letters about his.

I recently applied for a postal vote. A prepaid envelope was enclosed with the forms.

My mother, who is 93, recently had a fall at home and fractured her hip. She did have a basic PAYG phone with big buttons, but as her arthritis worsened she couldn't use it and has great difficulty using touchscreens in shops and banks. I wasn't allowed to visit her in hospital so we had to rely on phones to communicate - I've lost count of the number of staff on her ward who said can't she use her mobile phone when I asked to speak to her on the ward phone. One young male nurse carefully explained that there was an i-pad that we could use even though I explained that she couldn't use a touchscreen and I didn't have a mobile phone that would connect to it.

It has taken this pandemic to show that not everyone can afford or has access to technology. Many of our local schools provided lots of online learning that many of their pupils couldn't access. One of my former pupils, who I'm still in touch with, is at secondary school now - in their household there is one smart phone provided by his mother's employer for her to use for her work, but no printer. For the short time that it's available to him, he has had to share this with his sister, who is at college. During the first lockdown one of his classmates printed out stuff on his computer and brought it round for him. In the subsequent lockdowns he's been able to go to school as a vulnerable child.

I get a yellow polling card saying i have a postal vote my daughter gets a white one telling her where her polling station is

This is what concerned me with first lockdown when supermarkets made the elderly priority for home deliveries surely that was only possible if they had a computer and was up to speed with using it. I’m lucky I’ve got 16 year old granddaughter that’s a wiz on internet like most youngsters, but we’ve had to learn as we go.

I hope the question is systems other than on line should be available. If someone asked to vote by post then all communications should be by post for that person. If the question is all should be able to deal with all their affairs no matter circumstance then you are being unreasonable.

M0nica

There is always a problem when one 'technology' is going out of use and has been superceded by another.

It is not so long since there was an enormous fuss when the government insisted on making pension and benefit payments into bank accounts because a small number of older people still lived in a cash-only economy.

Having said that, I do think in a case like this, where someone has phoned for paper form, it is reasonable to assume that they do not have, or cannot use a computer so the return address should be on the form.

I would immediately be on to my local council, or local newspaper/radio to point out the absurdity of not having a return address on the form.

When they started paying my Mum's pension into her bank account, we had to withdraw it from a cashpoint for her; she had trouble walking and couldn't go out unaccompanied, and had macular degeneration, so couldn't see. I don't know what she'd have done if we couldn't help.

I'm sure the envelope will have been sent and will turn up inside her house at some later stage.

simtib

My Mum is 99 still living in her own bungalow. Had milk delivered but has now been told that she now has to order it online and pay online. There is no way she could start useing the internet at her age so now can nolonger get milk delivered.

My 94yo cousin has this problem too. Fortunately, a neighbour has a different milk delivery person, so she will be able to latch on to this one. If this is the way milk delivery services are going, though, it is bound to affect those without internet access. Worrying.

I remember not so long ago hearing about an elderly couple whose landline was down for some reason.
A friend or neighbour phoned the provider for them, asking for it to be fixed as a matter of urgency.

The bloke on the other end - evidently young and clueless - said, ‘Can’t they just use their mobiles?’

Presumably this is often the mindset as regards phones/ internet now.

welbeck

Suziewoozie, yes i know that, i am in england. that's why i began to get cross when the woman refused to send the form.
i told her that i had just received a letter from them inviting me to apply for a postal vote, i explained that i could not print a form out. and i complained that i felt i was losing my vote.
she didn't care. sounded bored. and about 15.
i may try tomorrow, see if i get someone more sensible.

Get onto the candidates tomorrow who are standing in your ward and say you are being prevented from exercising your democratic right. Don’t bother again with the council - you were treated appallingly. If any candidate is worth voting for they’ll deliver you a form tomorrow

Suziewoozie, yes i know that, i am in england. that's why i began to get cross when the woman refused to send the form.
i told her that i had just received a letter from them inviting me to apply for a postal vote, i explained that i could not print a form out. and i complained that i felt i was losing my vote.
she didn't care. sounded bored. and about 15.
i may try tomorrow, see if i get someone more sensible.

I think the amount of on-line business has indeed become unreasonable for some. I do think for any government or utility service there should be paper or in-person options. Think of all the people without computers, smart phones or the needed literacy in english to manage.

My older sister recently lost her husband to a quickly worsening illness. She had always paid her bills at the bank or at the utility. She had to apply for his short term, then long term benefit, then all the paperwork to do after his death. Because of Covid, even the government offices were closed with notes at the door to log on to the website. She has never really had the capacity to be tech-savvy and thank goodness for my younger sister who lived nearby and could assist. It was a lot of work.

Many people need advocates to assist them. It seems there should be some sort of agency or volunteer organization to assist people with that, although think of the danger of security issues.

You should hear the grumbles and swearing when my DH has to apply for his fishing license on line! Here we have both federal and provincial licenses needed, depending on if you are fishing salt or fresh waters, then all the special tags per species, etc. Ykes, it is quite a process.

Galaxy Absolutely

I think the answer is to provide the means to overcome those issues not exclude them from something that the rest of society can access. So we shouldn't be saying well there are people who cant afford a phone/laptop so they should be able to do it non digitally, we should be ensuring those people can have access to technology.

Doodledog "^there should be exceptions for people who are genuinely unable to access the internet, such as the very old, the disabled etc^."
Ahh, so these folk (nearly 2 million of them), would be the "etc"? You might find this interesting: www.theguardian.com/world/2020/apr/28/digital-divide-isolates-and-endangers-millions-of-uk-poorest

Chapeau

Doodledog there are folk who actually cannot afford to have access to the Internet.

Yes, of course there are, and as I said, there should be exemptions for those who are genuinely unable to use it, as opposed to those who 'just don't want to'.

my dad lives in england, i am in scotland, he got himself into a state with the recent census in england, they never sent a form out to him and all he saw was the tv adverts, he started to panic when he found out that he could be fined a £1000 for not doing it, he is not a tech person, has a small nokia phone and does not know how to text, i sorted it by finding a number he could call, not everyone has a pc/laptop, i have a mobile phone with 5 numbers in it, i don't like it or use it unless i need to, people are shocked when they ask for a number and i give them the house phone.....usual answer is....we need a mobile number...if they really need to talk to me they can call my home and leave a message. i still write letters and send cards because it is what i prefer to do.

.... and there are STILL plenty of places with little or no broadband.... the people who are simply being nuisances or difficult or thick are still paying their council tax, income tax, road tax, car insurance fuel bills etc etc etc
Everyone is all for people living in their own homes for as long as possible... cos it's cheaper for the NHS etc, but heaven forbid we provide them with the wherewithal and support they need....

Chapeau, a very fair point, as I well know from my teaching days.

Doodledog there are folk who actually cannot afford to have access to the Internet.

welbeck

i tried to get a postal vote.
but you have to download a form and fill it in by hand and send off to apply.
i don't have a printer. and only an intermittent second-hand laptop, although it's been v good this week, and i really appreciate it, honest; in case it's reading this, no offence.
today i received through the post a letter telling me the polling station had changed, as already shewn on polling card received some weeks ago.
it also invited me to apply for a postal vote.
so i rang the number given. they said they couldn't send the forms out because there would not be time to get them and send back. i could actually deliver them back by hand, but that wasn't asked. they told me to do it online.
the person sounded so uninterested and like a schoolchild.
i got a bit cross.
vast swathes of people are effectively being disenfranchised.

Which country are you in? The deadline in E is next Tuesday and it’s clear from the EC that you contact your local council if you can’t print off the form.

Marydoll, I used to work at the local library, where they did run ‘silver surfer’ classes now and then, but sometimes if we had time we’d try to help someone unfamiliar.

I particularly remember one woman, not much older than me, who needed an email address for something. I went through the whole rigmarole with her, but she wanted to use a very complicated password - nothing at all memorable - and refused to write it down since her husband had said she mustn’t. (!)
I made it quite clear that when she came to log in, she’d have to enter the password exactly or it wouldn’t work, but she insisted that she’d remember it.

Of course, once it was all done and she wanted to send an email, she couldn’t remember it exactly and it didn’t work, grrrr...
OTOH an old chap who must have been 80+ came in one day with a newspaper article containing a website about something he was interested in.
He’d never even touched a computer before, but I showed him the basics and he got it all straight away - went away so chuffed, saying how marvellous it was, he was off to buy a computer straight away!

i tried to get a postal vote.
but you have to download a form and fill it in by hand and send off to apply.
i don't have a printer. and only an intermittent second-hand laptop, although it's been v good this week, and i really appreciate it, honest; in case it's reading this, no offence.
today i received through the post a letter telling me the polling station had changed, as already shewn on polling card received some weeks ago.
it also invited me to apply for a postal vote.
so i rang the number given. they said they couldn't send the forms out because there would not be time to get them and send back. i could actually deliver them back by hand, but that wasn't asked. they told me to do it online.
the person sounded so uninterested and like a schoolchild.
i got a bit cross.
vast swathes of people are effectively being disenfranchised.

It's not only older people, who struggle. I used to run IT classes for parents, who lacked IT skills and were trying to get a job.
My colleagues cursed me, when one very difficult parent discovered word processing. She used to type very long epistles, full of her latest complaints. The bit which really irritated them, was the plethora of graphics they contained. ( My fault too!).