To think too much is expected of teachers these days

There's always a poster or two who seem to resent attention being focussed on a particular section of the working population.

Maybe Maizie it's good to have a poster or two to say it as it is from a different perspective sometimes.

If you are a middle of the road child you are fine, but it's not just Special Needs children that are not being catered for but also the bright children who are not stretched. My son who is above average intelligence was always getting into trouble for being destructive in class, he was bored. After being called in yet again I insisted that class tutor was at meeting and son, we discussed why he felt the need to misbehave answer from him " I'm bored and had already done the work." So I asked the teacher if they could provide him with extension work, she was put out as it would mean she would have to do extra work. My answer " then do not call me in school when my son is misbehaving and under no circumstances do they blame him for it." My goodness did they provide him with extra work and we never got called in once after. Its wrong that you have to keep having to fight for what is wrong with a little thought. I'm not saying that mixing childrens abilities in class are wrong, but the facilities, staffing and time are also needed to cope with it.

Teachers are constantly being asked to jump through more and more hoops whilst also having to educate to target rather than educate children. There should be a total wrap around system with education, social work and health working together. It was supposed to be there when I was teaching but sadly there were too many children with needs and too little funding in the system to make it work. I reported a child to Social Services. In my opinion that child was in serious danger but, although sympathetic and accepting of the danger involved, the social worker couldn't do anything because her list was so full and it was all she could do to help children who were in even more danger. The same when the SENCO referred one of my class to behaviour specialists. Yes they accepted there was a problem but no they couldn't help because they just didn't have the man power or funding to take on another child so he went on a waiting list and his needs weren't met. The system needs money pumping into it and specialists to be trained. It's not fair to ask teachers to do even more than they're already doing just because successive governments have been too tight with money/uncaring to allocate the appropriate funding.

Dare I suggest that if all parents did a better job, there would be less for teachers to take responsibility for? The attitude amongst many these days is that everything, , from teaching children to communicate, to toilet training , is the job of the teachers.

Ellianne

^Teachers should be well paid but they aren’t the only people who have a hugely stressful job although you wouldn’t think it to listen to some of them.^
That is so true TwiceasNice.

It happens every time!

There's always a poster or two who seem to resent attention being focussed on a particular section of the working population.

If people are so concerned about other people having stressful jobs why don't they start a thread about it instead of indulging in whataboutery?

Teachers are expected to teach things that parents should teach. Too much is put on the shoulders of teachers. I had a brilliant education....teachers were allowed to teach what was expected....reading writing and arithmatic

Mmnn, my “excellent “ girls’ grammar school education in the early 70s involved middle aged spinster teachers undermining any sense of self confidence and self worth that us girls had. My parents were very proud that I’d passed the 11+ and got into that school.

Teachers should be well paid but they aren’t the only people who have a hugely stressful job although you wouldn’t think it to listen to some of them.
That is so true TwiceasNice.

In 2008 I retired from my main job, and very soon after was approached by the local Primary School asking if I would consider a part time job to teach the little ones the following;

use of cutlery,

proper use of the toilet (even pointing out to one little girl that she needed to pull her knickers down before sitting on the toilet!)

Changing those who still wore nappies, and eventually toilet training them (parents attitude? "Oh toilet training? Never got around to it, I'm sure you can teach him/her")

Re-dressing those who obviously could not dress themselves (both legs down one leg of the pants, garments on backwards/inside-out, sweatshirt worn as tights, shoes on wrong feet etc)

And later I was deployed to year 5 (the year before SATS and 12 months before they left for secondary school) to give extra curricula lessons to upgrade reading and spelling.

I worked flat out 5 hours a day on these jobs, and I was happy to do so, but the teaching staff were even happier that those hours had not been part of their day, and that they were free to teach.

To all those who scoff at the thought that there are children and needs like this, please listen to those who have experience. This school was in a respectable area and, sadly, some parents attitudes were "It's not my job to teach them these things, it's what they go to school for"!

I will want my grandchildren to attend a school where the English, maths and other subject teachers area are highly qualified in their area and are supported to teach what they know so that the children do as well as they possibly can.

Yes I think there should be specialists in schools as well as teachers. I am one as I work in a secondary school as a counsellor and my appts are always full! There have been a counsellors in every secondary school in Wales and Northern Ireland for years. England is far behind.

With regards to teachers there have always been bad, good and the ones that always went the absolute extra mile. They should be well paid but they aren’t the only people who have a hugely stressful job although you wouldn’t think it to listen to some of them.

My 1960’s secondary education was a nightmare, I remember being hit and humiliated by teachers who shouldn’t have been in charge of anything let alone children. I have very bitter memories of my schooling and being told I was not good enough. However I’m now better qualified than the teachers who told me I was rubbish so at least it made me determined.

My grandchildren are in a lovely school , still not all good teachers, but I’m glad they will have a happier experience than me

It is done on the cheap because that is what we pay for!

Maybe there just isn't enough time to do everything well and we should accept that teachers need to just teach and if there are other problems e.g. toilet training, grief counselling, abuse etc we need teachers to refer these children to support staff and experts.

The support staff and experts have been dwindling fast because of cuts to budgets; they're not there in the numbers there used to be. Teachers are having to make up the shortfall.

^ There was no army of teaching assistants to help us, and large classes were normal.^

There is no 'army of teaching assistants' in schools any more, Riggie. The number of TAs was greatly increased under Labour from 1997, but since 2010 the tory's austerity measures meant cuts to school budgets and TAs have gradually disappeared. Along with a number of the support services which schools tried to offer.

I am firmly of the opinion that too much is expected of teachers as per the OP.

The most disappointing outcome in broadening the roles of teachers is that we still have too many children that leave school without numeracy and literacy skills. Rather than improving outcomes we seem to be going backwards. Maybe there just isn't enough time to do everything well and we should accept that teachers need to just teach and if there are other problems e.g. toilet training, grief counselling, abuse etc we need teachers to refer these children to support staff and experts. As a society we need to decide what matters most.
Going to a parents evening leaves me feeling despair that the teachers themselves were badly taught when they were at school. Reading children's school reports is a complete waste of time as they are full of jargon and level achievements without telling me anything about the child and where they need extra help or input.
I have a couple of principles "Does it make sense?" and "what are we aiming to achieve" both these seem to be lost these days.

Buffy, Cossy
Girls and women should be able to wear what they like ? OK, but it’s not just the men and boys who need educating. Women, other girls and children also pass comments about other people’s clothing or lack of clothing choices.
“If you can’t say something nice, say nothing.” is often quoted on here but unless it becomes law, people feel entitled to say what looks good to them and what they feel is inappropriate.
Think how many on GN have asked, “Is this too young for me?” or commented on leggings worn on what they think are the wrongly shaped bodies.
I never thought twice about wearing miniskirts although I did know what my mum, dad, grandma and yes, what the boys would say when I went out.

I feel like I've entered the twilight zone on this thread lots of you seem to have very negative views of young people.

I also do not understand the obsession with 4 year olds using cutlery. Lots of households don't use cutlery.

Back to education it is all to do with lack of funding. EHCP were a good idea but children aren't diagnosed or identified early enough and there is not enough communication between education, health and social care unless problems are very pronounced. It also seems to have been used as an instrument to withdraw funding from individual schools and expect them to fund it without the funds to fund it.

Lets face the last decade has seen a series of devastating cuts from central government that have directly affected funding to/from local authorities that go into all areas inc schools. We also have a situation where local authorities have relied heavily on the voluntary and charity sector which is now failing through lack of funding.

I think teachers are too heavily relied on but it is a direct result of cuts to services across the board.

All of the things you mention were part of teaching in Denmark in the years from 1970 to 2010 when I was teaching.

If children with special needs are to be included in ordinary classes, which they have been here since the 1980s, then obviously their teachers have to be trained to recognise these needs and in how best to include the child in a normal class.

Apart from that, one or more teachers who have specialised in the particular need will also be teaching the child in question.

Sex education has long been part of the school prospectus too. Since the 1970s in fact, geared to the age of the children in question.

In the early years, it mainly was a biological orientation on the differences between boys and girls and men and women, with for older children focus on the physical aspects of sex and procreation.

Teaching religious instruction to teenagers, I included discussions of various religious points of view on sexual morality, ethics, the legal and religious aspects of marriage and the various rituals used to include a newborn child in society.

Obviously, the subject has to be included in what is taught at colleges for those intending to become teachers.

Many people feel the subject is best dealt with at home and by the parents of each child.

I would like to agree, but this is really only so in an ideal world, which we do not live in.

I have had 12 year old girls in tears because no-one had told them about periods and the poor girls thought they were bleeding to death, or had somehow contracted a venereal disease, or AIDS.

Obviously, it is better that a teacher has told girls about menstruation before they arrive at the age for it, than the conspiracy of silence that apparently still exists. The mothers of these girls said they thought the girls knew, as adverts for sanitary protection are all over the place, but admitted that they had never discussed these things with their daughters!

So I must conclude that it should indeed be part of teaching to instruct adolescents in the biological facts and the moral and ethical considerations they give rise to.

I agree, as others have posted, that teachers should know about the SEND of their pupils, but I think the OP's general viewpoint is spot on.

The gradual stripping-out of funding for pastoral care support, admin support, classroom support, and social care has meant that teachers shoulder so much more responsibility than they once did. The workload is unmanageable and they are set up to fail.

As a retired teacher I would say that forming a relationship with each child, understanding how you could support and help them, was a huge key to their progress in learning. There was a huge change in the children I was teaching 25 years ago to the children arriving at school now. My personal experience was that children starting school more recently were arriving less able to concentrate, with less respect for adults and less motivated to learn. So are we expecting too much of our teachers now? We need every single school year to be a good one for each child, starting with nursery. Given the upset and stress that children may have been through during lockdown and the additional erosion of their self esteem we might expect, then yes, we expect far too much of our teachers. Many people don’t realise how much teachers have to document of what they teach, how pupils progress and feedback to children. It is a real challenge to manage. Teaching today is an intense, exhausting job and I am grateful not to be teaching anymore, even though I loved it when I was younger

I completely agree. My son attends a specialist autism school and the staff are wonderful, but I do feel at times, because of the emotional needs of the children and the level of support they require, the lines sometimes get a little blurred and as a result the academic side of things fall by the wayside.
Add a pandemic into the mix and it's even harder.
10 years ago, when he fist began attending specialist education, there was a clear but positive divide between educational and emotional/mental health support.
It must be even more difficult within mainstream education.

SEN are not always identified and when they are the resources to deal with them are almost non existent. Why do we insist young people with SEN are all lumped in with non SEN pupils. I kniw a disabled boy who hates going to his "normal" school as he feels he doesn't fit especially at break time. He feels he is constantly reminded about his disability, watching classmates run around and play games. We should stop trying to make everyone "normal". Why do we accept everyone is different yet want them to be the same. A lot of SEN pupils need special environments to address their needs. There should be teachers for specific needs, not one teacher to deal with all.

Buffy

What is wrong with a teacher telling girls they must expect unwanted attention if they wear skirts which barely cover their private parts? The silly girls say that they should be able to wear what they like and boys shouldn’t look. I read that a teacher was fired for telling them to use some common sense.

Very often on Gransnet there are reminisces of wearing mini skirts did anybody put them on thinking they were going to be sexually assaulted?
Why blame 'silly girls' for mostly males being brutally violent and unable to control themselves or behave like decent members of society.

When I was at school in the 60s/ 70s, the word dyslexia didn't exist - I'm not sure that people even knew what it was!
There has been at least one person, now in his 60s who regularly ranting on our grammar school Facebook page that the school did nothing to diagnose his problem . I can think of several other people that are either friends or work colleagues that have only recently been diagnosed with the condition in their 40s and beyond.
Any of those in my primary school that were struggling were assisted by just 2 teaching assistants for the whole school.
Many of the children that currently have problems that are caused by something outside the school and my niece who is a Primary school teacher has often said that virtually every day she has to deal with a child and weigh up the balance between spending extra time with that one child on the days that her TA isn't there (if budgets have to be cut, it's often the TAs that go first) to the detriment of the rest of her class.
As far as sex education is concerned - many parents don't want their children to be taught it for religious reasons. Days gone by, those children could have been taught another science subject in another class, where now that is seen as discrimination.

I trained to teach in the 1970s. We had an overview of (some) special needs and teach sex ed. We also kept eyes open for any other needs the kids might have. There was no army of teaching assistants to help us, and large classes were normal. Spending our evenings and holidays preparing work was normal as were lunchbreaks on duty, doing clubs, or cranking the banda machine to print off those worksheets!

So while I know current teachers have a lot of paperwork to do, so I don't think their workload is so different.