Potential allergy issue at local pub

Marydoll, more takeaways here seem to be doing that too. It encourages people to ask.
A couple of those we use also have a coloured asterisk with a note which saying that they cannot guarantee * dishes will not have been in contact with or contain nuts.
One DGS is lactose intolerant. He also ate spaghetti ‘with nothing’.

I have recently noticed that all takeaways here, both in the shop and on their websites, have notices advising those with food allergies to alert staff before ordering.

When my son was very young, people (even my GP) were not really aware of the seriousness of food allergies. My son's Epipen had to be ordered by the hospital, from the USA at an exhorbitant cost.

My GP soon changed his mind when his own daughter suffered anaphylaxis after eating a nutty sweet, finches from a box of Milk Tray. I pointed out that as both he and his wife were doctors, at least she had a fighting chance of getting immediate help, my son didn't!!

I used to spend hours in the supermarket, scrutinising the ingredients. He had the blandest and most boring diet imaginable. ?

WE always took the responsibility to ensure on the rare occasions we ate out, what we knew exactly he was eating. It became a standing family joke, that when abroad all he ever ate was spaghetti solo.

PippaZ, no halo shining here. I'm genuinely interested, as a person yourself with food allergies/intolerance, please enlighten me on exactly what it is you expect from a chef/restaurant, and what you think I don't seem to grasp ...?

I have two posts on this thread, both simply giving my opinion, that I think people with allergies/intolerances/dislikes, should alert the staff/chef, as I feel it's impractical for a restaurant to list on their menu every single ingredient for every single dish.

I do appreciate that it is now law for food manufacturers to list ingredients on their packaging and, as they make the same product, in vast quantities, this is quite easy for them to do, and reasonable to expect. However, many of us appreciate that being a chef usually comes with a certain amount of creative license, it's what a chef does, and they often like to fiddle about with their recipes. This makes it nigh on impossible for their menus to be printed with all the correct ingredients. Hence the importance for alerting the chef to any intolerances/allergies/dislikes, before your food is prepared. No chef would want a customer to be ill (or worse!), after eating in his restaurant, so should be more than happy to discuss a customers requirements. I fail to see why you seem to think that approach is unacceptable?

From your comment ...

"However, even on such a restricted diet I still have preferances and my money will be paying for the chefs preferance not mine, or any other customers, if we follow the thinking of some on this thread." ...

I can only assume you would prefer to stifle the creative license of a chef, in which case it would probably be better to eat at home.

Grannysyb I don't think anyone has said those who are ceoliac or suffer from food intolerances would not ask. Where has this idea come from? Or are you not reading the other posts?

A friend who has been a coeliac all her life takes the view that it is up to her to check with the waiting staff, there are so many different sorts if allergies. My DGS is allergic to some nuts, hus parents have always checked with the staff.

As I said some days ago Mollygo - they are. I for one would not fault them although I still can't eat in some pubs where the food is not freshly prepared as it can't be adapted.

I have a feeling that those who are rebuffing the complaint about the "jam" either don't like customers or don't like people.

I'm lucky on the alergy/intolerance bit. I am very unlikely to die from eating something. On the other hand it will make me very ill. Generally, the staff are actually quite interested and want good person to person feedback so bend over backwards to help.

However, even on such a restricted diet I still have preferances and my money will be paying for the chefs preferance not mine, or any other customers, if we follow the thinking of some on this thread.

Eating out with a gluten intolerant couple I was amazed at how obliging the chef was. He came out to talk to them and discuss what was possible. We ordered the same dishes from the menu, but their meals looked slightly different and came with a flag indicating that they were the gluten free ones to avoid confusion.
On the subject of allergy or dislike, my DGD once explained to me that ‘Jack says he has to have Vimto in his water bottle because he’s allergic to water!’

I would never think to ask when ordering a bacon and brie sandwich 'are you going to put chilli jam in that, if so can I have it without?' I have never heard of that combination. I do expect and bacon and brie sandwich to be just that, though the addition of cranberry could be expected as fairly traditional.

I would certainly be upset enough to decide I wouldn't eat there again, and I suspect that is not what the staff are aiming for (or maybe they are, perhaps I am not the right kind of customer?)

Were I in that position, I would see it as my responsibility to alert the staff/chef, as I realise that it is not practical for every single food ingredient, for every single dish, to be listed on their menus.

A bit of halo shining there. Of course you would and of course, those in that position, do. But don't you go out to enjoy yourself? That means a thoughtful and helpful staff, not ones who see the chef as the highest in the hierarchy and the customer as just a nuisance.

Sorry, the ingredients listed did not contain the word Milk

Tesco’s have recalled ice lollies because the ingredients didn’t include Milk!

I think that it’s time that pubs and restaurants have to publish ingredients, my daughter wanted to make some cosmetics and every suppliers batch had to be sent to the labs to confirm the ingredients. To cant be tough on one sector and not another.

There probably aren't many of us who would automatically expect to find chilli jam on a bacon a brie sandwich, but I wouldn't be at all surprised to find cranberry sauce. I guess it was this particular chef's take on his style of bacon & brie. Although, as the OP has stated, there was no menu available at the time, as they were behind getting them out.

It's one thing to expect a restaurant to list what's in a sandwich, on a menu, but what about more complicated dishes? You only have to google a recipe to see that there are many different variations of the same dish. Some may have 5 ingredients, whilst others may have 10, or far more, for the same dish. I think it unrealistic to expect restaurants/pubs to list every single ingredient, for every single dish, from appetisers, to main courses, and desserts.

Hence the reason why, anyone with an allergy, intolerance, or dislike, for a particular food, should alert the staff/chef. And, as many posters have already stated, restaurants are now becoming more aware of the importance of food allergies, etc., and well trained staff tend to ask when you order, but if they don't you need to make them aware.

Were I in that position, I would see it as my responsibility to alert the staff/chef, as I realise that it is not practical for every single food ingredient, for every single dish, to be listed on their menus. That is not me being argumentative, or siding with the staff/chef, over the customer. That is me being reasonable, and taking responsibility for myself, and not expecting someone else to be responsible for me.

It really isn't difficult to do that, and far better than leaving things to chance.

have

I do hope you don't run any sort of eatery Witzend; you seem to put the customer very low down your list of priorities. It's quite reasonable to expect butter on the bun or cream on a pudding and so be able to say you don't want them but how can you second guess the chilli jam?

I guess I have to be glad I limit my eating out. I already feel I am annoying in my needs just think how upsetting have just a preference must be for the poor staff.

In the case of any true dislike, let alone allergy, IMO you need to make it crystal clear when ordering.

A sister really can’t bear butter, so whenever eating out she has to stress no butter on vegetables, or in the case of e.g. pan fried fish, not fried in butter.

I really dislike cream, so have so often said ‘No cream thank you’ when ordering a pudding, only almost invariably to be told that they’d always ask anyway.

The one time I didn’t say it, whatever I’d ordered came swimming in a lake of cream!
It really grieved me to have to send it back, only for it to very likely be wasted. (I just hope one of the staff ate it!)

I’m inclined to agree with Maizie. Just mention it on the menu, However clearly anyone with intolerance to certain food will always specify that when they order.

Incidentally I think bacon Brie chilli jam sounds a revolting combination! But I do like sweet chilli jam on crushed avocado on toast.....

I would have sent it back, can’t stand chilli and the way people think you should put it in everything, even shepherds pie. My daughter has an serious allergy, and always questions the staff, re allergen, who if they are unsure, will check with the chef.

Well, what’s the point of having a chef if all you want a cafe to do is put a slice of brie and a rasher of bacon between two bits of bread?

I could do with an almighty 'eye roll' emoji.

All the cafe has to do is mention the twiddly bits. Like:

'Bacon and Brie sandwich with Chilli Jam'.

It's not difficult...

My point was I don't have an allergy or an intolerance of chillies but I don't like them, would not have chosen this "jam" and don't want them to appear on my food unannounced. It's was something people could either like or dislike after all.

I'm completely with Pippa on this one. It's not as though chilli jam was such an insignificant part of the sandwich that it couldn't have been included in the description. (I'd have hated it, too..)

And I understand the OP's point about allergies. It would be possible to scan a menu and choose something that would appear to be absolutely safe then get a nasty shock on eating an undisclosed ingredient.

I don't see what is wrong with proposing a hypothetical situation for discussion, either.

Well, what’s the point of having a chef if all you want a cafe to do is put a slice of brie and a rasher of bacon between two bits of bread?

I have sympathy with those who have allergies or food sensitivities. They usually have the good sense to make the chef aware of these. Picky eaters who say nothing when they order and then moan after they have been served with something because they don’t like the garnish, and then try to dress up their pickiness with self-righteous ‘concern’ for people who have real problems, should stay at home and prepare their own food.

GillT57

Recently when we have been eating out, the person taking the order has always asked if there are any allergies they need to be aware of. I agree it is irritating to get something you didn't expect, but surely if you had an allergy to chillies you would have said so. I hate butter, so whenever I order anything involving bread, I always make sure it will not already be on it, likewise potatoes. There is a certain amount of personal responsibility here, chefs cannot be expected to go through every single item surely

My point was I don't have an allergy or an intolerance of chillies but I don't like them, would not have chosen this "jam" and don't want them to appear on my food unannounced. It's was something people could either like or dislike after all.

This is a business. They will lose money if they send it back and they have every chance the customers will not return and the word of mouth assessment they pass on will not be positive. If they wanted to offer it many cafes and restaurants put it in a little pot on the side or offer you a choice. It is not the chefs' job to go rogue and add just what he feels like if it's not on the menu.

It's not getting through, I know, but THEY ARE THE CUSTOMERS AND THIS IS A BUSINESS. They haven't just popped round to your house for lunch.

Jaffacake2

Pippa z completely agree with you that people with food intolerance should be treated the same as those with allergies. Both affect your health to differing degrees.
I meant that a lot of people say they are intolerant or allergic to foods which they just don't like. I heard a lady in a restraunt once saying adamantly that she needed gluten free pasta but then went on to have a chocolate cake for dessert ! It was normal wheat based flour. This is when servers become fed up with people saying they can't eat certain foods .

Oh dear Still it is the servers job to serve and not to judge their customers.

I wonder why she wanted GF pasta. It's better now than it used to be but why bother?

Recently when we have been eating out, the person taking the order has always asked if there are any allergies they need to be aware of. I agree it is irritating to get something you didn't expect, but surely if you had an allergy to chillies you would have said so. I hate butter, so whenever I order anything involving bread, I always make sure it will not already be on it, likewise potatoes. There is a certain amount of personal responsibility here, chefs cannot be expected to go through every single item surely

Pippa z completely agree with you that people with food intolerance should be treated the same as those with allergies. Both affect your health to differing degrees.
I meant that a lot of people say they are intolerant or allergic to foods which they just don't like. I heard a lady in a restraunt once saying adamantly that she needed gluten free pasta but then went on to have a chocolate cake for dessert ! It was normal wheat based flour. This is when servers become fed up with people saying they can't eat certain foods .

Jaffacake2

JenniferEccles

It must be a nightmare to be in the hospitality industry these days with all these different food fads to cater for.

Obviously a genuine allergy which could be fatal is a different matter altogether but it does seem that every other person nowadays claims to have an allergy to something.

This is the problem for people like me who suffer from anaphylaxis. Many staff in hospitality are bombarded with customers saying they are allergic to foods when it is apparent they just don't like them.
So I have to say all about carrying adrenaline injections in order to be taken seriously rather than order from a menu which has been certified as safe ingredients.
That's why I don't now eat out.

I'm sorry Jaffacake2 but I am not allergic (and wouldn't say I was) but I am intolerant to (cannot digest) foods containing high levels of short-chain carbohydrates. The last error I made meant I was ill for three weeks. Add to that the fact that this condition has already brought on one other condition (which needs me to keep the first in order so that doesn't get worse and I become immobile) and that I have a close relative who ended up with a colostomy because of not treating the same intolerances and a couple of others where it moved on to an IBD and I do think those with these problems deserve as much tolerance as those with an allergy. Even allergies vary in degree.