Was nursing care better in the 'old days'

I’m sorry you’ve had a distressing experience beswitched. In general I have found nurses to be kind and caring during my many hospital stays. Perhaps the one you encountered was frustrated by the bed shortage and not being in a position to help. How is your mother today?

Trained nurses roles have changed significantly since I was a student nurse. They now undertake many more technical tasks which were previously carried out by junior doctors, and “hands on” personal care” is mainly the job of health care assistants. I think the holistic nature of patient care has disappeared, from my observation when visiting patients.

Do you think the old SEN as a path to SRN worked JaneJudge? I don't know enough about it to form an opinion but I have a feeling some were happy to stay at SEN level.

Another thought would be that care, probably including HCAs are not well rewarded as far as I can see and I wonder if "care" needs to be seen as a separate profession. Some nurses now go on even further and specialise in one area. It does make me wonder if the whole structure needs reviewing and separate, care driven roles fitted all the way through ... or not ... ?

I was in and out of hospital in between the late 1940s and the late 1950s, and my memory is of some lovely nurses who cared about me and, as some of my stays ran into months, who let me do all kinds of things I shouldn't really have done and would lead to sacking s these days.

But I also have memories of some pretty nasty ones as well.

I think, like most occupations, some people are nice and some are nasty and this has not varied over time.

Sorry you’ve had such an upsetting time Beswitched. I’m glad there’s a bed now.
I understood that your 3rd degree probably meant you felt you had been overly interrogated, so not to worry.
It’s difficult for nursing staff at the moment but I can’t blame some attitudes on Covid. E.g.1: 5 years before Covid was even heard of, the ward sister dealing with my mum was deliberately obstructive when I was trying to get information about why Mum had fallen on the ward. I complained about him on the hospital complaints site and to CQC and after their next visit, they informed me that he had been removed.
E.g.2: The doctor who left my DH sitting in pain, waiting for an operation, despite being prepped, then refused to do it.
But alongside that there was the superb nursing care provided for my Father in his last days and for my DH when he was finally treated. Likewise the excellent provision for my GC when they have been admitted with problems due to asthma.
What Greeneyedgirl says about increasing technical tasks is true. It doesn’t leave much time for ‘caring’, though some staff seem to manage that better than others.

Mollygo:
I understood that your 3rd degree probably meant you felt you had been overly interrogated, so not to worry.

Beswitched:
But since it became a profession requiring a 3rd level degree ...

Really?

PippaZ

Do you think the old SEN as a path to SRN worked JaneJudge? I don't know enough about it to form an opinion but I have a feeling some were happy to stay at SEN level.

Another thought would be that care, probably including HCAs are not well rewarded as far as I can see and I wonder if "care" needs to be seen as a separate profession. Some nurses now go on even further and specialise in one area. It does make me wonder if the whole structure needs reviewing and separate, care driven roles fitted all the way through ... or not ... ?

I do think the old belted nursing system worked and I realise some nurses were quite happy to be a red or a yellow belt. Maybe there is a place for work your way up nursing scheme and that of the degree system that is now in place. I may be wrong but everyone I've known who has applied to go into nursing in the last 5 years has found the application process quite difficult.

I agree with you that HCA and not well rewarded and I think we need to consider why CARE in general is undervalued. There are lots of changes to terminology, even in respect to learning disability care - for example they have 'support workers' now not 'carers' but imo and I'm sure every other person will agree with me who has a family member with moderate-severe learning disability, they still need to be 'cared' for and about, so caring should be at the centre of that. What is the point of having a support worker who doesn't care about what you want or need? I am most probably going off at a tangent but I understood what the original poster meant as I'm having to deal with quite of this in my own life atm and it is frustrating but I'm sure the pandemic has made things 1000 x worse (as has cuts to funding directly to the NHS but also cuts to services from central government to social care too)

I do feel sorry that you have had a difficult time Beswitched. I often felt, when I took Mum to the hospital (or met the ambulance there) that you have to be fit and healthy to survive the process and too much is expected, certainly of the elderly confused (my mother, not Beswitched)

However, that is no reason to attack others learning - why would anyone do that and, if you do, you should not be surprised if someone leaps to the defence of learning.

However, I am really glad for you that it is sorted now.

I think the figures show a high percentage of elderly people do actually die because they can't cope with a hospital experience, so should there be alternatives? It seems to me the old system of the geriatric wards (of which I'm not a fan btw) were taken away without proper consideration about how elderly people entering a hospital environment would cope with being in A&E for a long time followed by a general ward.

grannylyn65

Really!?

Yes, really ? You have to laugh.

Thanks, JaneJudge. One of my friend's sister didn't do so well at school but wanted to nurse and went in as an SEN, got to SRN and then (it was quite a while ago) Matron. Many jobs seem all or nothing now and even the apprenticeships don't always seem to give you a chance to go off in another direction. I have always thought we need the most well-educated population we can have (you might have guessed) but we do need it open for people to do this at different paces.

PippaZ, I think we are on the same page. I think we need different ways for people to learn at their own pace. I am not a fan on seeing education as a race, especially now it is so expensive

I worked in the NHS from the 1970s to late 90s. And there were many changes, some for the better, some for worse.

The pressure of paperwork is definitely for the worse and grinds many nurses and others into the ground. The fragmentation of accountability via lots of private organisations means it is now so easy to claim "It's not my responsibility guv!".

And my bugbear is the corporate-style window-dressing that wastes so much time and money. " We are a caring organsation and committed to quality health care. Here is your ward team..........etc. etc." notices all over the place. Once upon a time it was not necessary to announce that the staff were there to care - it went without saying.

i thought it was perfectly clear what OP meant, and it was not necessary to throw reams of text about different types and levels of degrees at her.
not did i see the OP as an attack on learning, just recounting a difficult experience in an on-going difficult situation, and a wider musing around the subject.
glad you are now getting a result OP. good luck.

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