to resent the census requiring details of employer from years ago

And I believe that your occupation is on your death certificate so you would proba ly be down as in the example high court judge (retired) rather than cleaner (retired) and anyone can get a copy of your death certificate as soon as all the beurocracy is finished should anyone be interested. Not that you'll care by then

Monica is right, no one will know for at least 100 years, in fact the 1921 census will not be made public until 2022 so more than 100 years. If you are concerned about your grandchildren finding out maybe you could do a little autobiography for them. Don't know how old you are but I've been down as employed on various censuses since 1981, and they will as they become available show my life to anyone interested in 2081, as will my life and parents in the decades before that
So if you for example worked your way up through the legal ranks and ended up as a high court judge, they will find out about that first, and only in 100 years that you then became a cleaning lady, which is an honorable profession, I've done that at times, and if you had written what happened they will understand.
I'm sorry that it has brought up bad memories for you, but this is going to happen from time to time, people asking about your life, far better to get help coming to terms with it, any injustice is hard to cope with but it can be good to not be so upset every time you think about it.

M0nica

Why didn't you take your employer to court for unfair dismissal?Most of all why are you still so obsessed by something that happened so many years ago and cannot affect you in anyway now.

Your experience was clearly very unpleasant, but why let it cloud your retirement. Since I retired I am rarely asked what I did during my working life nor is DH, obviously it comes out at times because, we call upon our experience or career to explain our under standing of something, but the answer will always be in terms of our professional description, not generally a detailed description of who we worked for when and why we left.

As I said, I think you need professional help.

I didn't think of going to court. I had been encouraged to do that when I was made redundant from my original job, but I didn't want the stress. There was also the risk of losing and having to pay the employer's legal costs. I just wrote it off. It had gone. It was many years later when the census started asking, out of the blue, for people to provide name and address of most recent employer that brought it back. 2021 census brought it back again.

Why didn't you take your employer to court for unfair dismissal?Most of all why are you still so obsessed by something that happened so many years ago and cannot affect you in anyway now.

Your experience was clearly very unpleasant, but why let it cloud your retirement. Since I retired I am rarely asked what I did during my working life nor is DH, obviously it comes out at times because, we call upon our experience or career to explain our under standing of something, but the answer will always be in terms of our professional description, not generally a detailed description of who we worked for when and why we left.

As I said, I think you need professional help.

None of those, it was a perfectly reasonable job description in the same general area as my original job. Had it worked out and been honourable I might have been there for years, quite content. I was happy there until the need to tell lies was put to me. It came as quite a shock but was explained as necessary. I refused to tell lies.

Is it like the oozlum bird, that rare Australian creature which flies in ever-decreasing circles until it manages to fly up its own backside?
That is why it is so rare.

I am confused.
You were a store detective?
A hitman?
A professional shoplifter?

You are talking in ever decreasing circles and you know what happened to the jub-jub bird* don’t you?

* it flew round and round in ever decreasing circles

That doing so has made me dirty.

Elderlyperson We are going round in circles. A census is a counting of people and the government also ask questions that will help them plan how and where resources collected by taxation should be spent. It is a snapshot, not a judgement and all it does is count things, No one, but no one is remotely interested in your personal data, only what it reveals when mixed with +/- 30 million other questionnaires.

Redundancy does not mean being sacked. The word 'redundancy' makes that clear, the earliest definition of the word means 'a superfluity' of words, of books, of vegetables.
I have done some googling this eveening and every site I have looked at, including, the government site makes it clear that the word redundant only applies when someone leaves an employer because the employer has more staff than they need at that point in time. If you are sacked for poor work or a misdemeanour you are NOT made redundant, you are sacked or dismissed. Although the phrase redundancy is sometimes used to sugar the pill of a sacking, for compassionate reasons. When redundancies are happening someone may be given the choice of applying for redundancy rather than getting the sack.

Why you see redundancy as being something to be ashamed of I do not know. It is nothing special, nobody judges anyone on it, just commiserates them and bores them with their redundancy story.

I do not think I know anyone who hasn't been made redundant at some time, sometimes multiple times and being a professional is no protection, and plenty of self-employed people go bankrupt. It includes, me, my DH and both children.

I do agree with others, that perhaps you should seek professional help to deal with your demons. GN is an outlet, and we can float ideas and try to give some help and advice, but it seems to me that you are spending too much time thinking and over thinking the past, you are asking for help, but refusing it when it is given, asking for explanations and then ignoring them.

Do you live alone? Perhaps you should see your GP and explain your over thinking and he can direct you to where you can get help.

MawBe

^but the census form would try to deem them as that is who they are^

No Elderlyperson a census form cannot “deem” or judge or assess and despite your protestations to the contrary you do not want to be identified with whatever job it was you ended up doing.
I believe you need to face that truth, tell us on GN what it was - you are anonymous here- and get it out of your system. It is eating away at you and things have blown up out of all proportion.

The job as describable is fine. The salary was lower than average but that does not get asked, so it looks alright.

I am wondering if the indignation of the lady in another thread who saw a shoplifter and the shoplifter realised she had seen him and put his finger to his mouth as a 'shh' and resented the attempt to involve her in his shoplifting is the clue.

Perhaps I needed to write the name and address and write the duties then add that after a while I was told explicitly of an additional duty of a need for me to tell lies and I refused and a week later I was dismissed on purported grounds of incapability. Perhaps I feel that I have been dragged into making the job look reasonable and respectable and not what it turned out to be. That I have constructively condoned it. Indignant like the lady in the shop in the other thread.

but the census form would try to deem them as that is who they are

No Elderlyperson a census form cannot “deem” or judge or assess and despite your protestations to the contrary you do not want to be identified with whatever job it was you ended up doing.
I believe you need to face that truth, tell us on GN what it was - you are anonymous here- and get it out of your system. It is eating away at you and things have blown up out of all proportion.

But who do you think is going to be interested in this info in a personal way? Elderlyperson? I cannot see why it bothers you so much. Fill in the form, two seconds, job done.

ElderlyPerson
I assure you that you are not the sum of your last (miserable) job experience. You are beyond that now and have survived. Good for you!

If you are really really bothered by it maybe you could do a week or two proofreading for someone or maybe write poetry and attempt to get it published in the next 10 years for example. Maybe you can become a self-employed artist or craftsperson? I don't know your skills...
If you really want to I think you may be able to "overwrite" this bit of your past with a one-off short term job.

Otherwise, please try to be pleased you are out! I left one job where my manager was both horrible and incompetent - I'd be happy to put that job on the census to be honest.
It was a miracle I survived!

Jaxjacky

EP I have read and followed this thread and I’m sad that a number of events in your past seem to be eating you up inside. Maybe you need to discuss this with someone so you can, as most of us do, accept that was then, this is now and enjoy life in the present.
I filled out the census as I do most obligatory forms, factually, including my, birth place as Pakistan, not for a millisecond did I think any more about it.
Your past is that, past; try and move away from it for today, the now.

I am discussing it, that is why I started this thread.

Thank you for reading it. Some of the things that happened did not happen to me. Many things happened to others.
I paid dinner money and thus not singled out.

I had moved away from the issue of that job. The census people keep bringing it up.

Perhaps I should think of them as just inconsiderate silly people going to work.

MawBe

^Someone might have lost a good job through redundancy and then, doing their best to support themselves and any dependents they might have by taking whatever job they could get, so now they are branded with that job.^

I do wonder ElderlyPerson if you are the sort of person who feels one is defined by ones job? He’s a lawyer, shes a doctor, somebody else is a plumber”
If so, that is a very blinkered and class-conscious way of looking at the world. An opera singer I know of had to take a job as a delivery driver during lockdown, -there being no furlough in the Arts, an actor is stacking shelves at Tesco. That has not made them any less talented, just responsible adults who had a family to feed and a mortgage to pay.
Would you view them differently?
I wonder what they felt about their Census form, but suspect it was the least of their worries!

Actually no. I have always tried to avoid that. More that 'he is employed as a plumber' and not 'he is a plumber', if mentioned at all. I have always resented people who want to know "what do you do?" and "what is your occupation?" and especially "who is your employer". It can sometimes be relevant, such as if someone visits the doctor feeling ill, but maybe their hobby is more relevant to the diagnosis.

Yet a doctor is a doctor because it is a qualification. Sort of an attitude that a qualification is freehold, a job is leasehold - you might get turned out through no fault of your own.

No I would not view them differently, but the census form would try to deem them as that is who they are - perhaps that is the root of my resentment, that I am being wrongly assessed. Not that I want to be assessed, but if I must be assessed then that assessment should be holistic not just seizing on an unrepresentative sampling. Though my answer was just factual about the job, nothing about the issue of refusing to tell lies, though I remember that when I had to fill in the form.

Someone might have lost a good job through redundancy and then, doing their best to support themselves and any dependents they might have by taking whatever job they could get, so now they are branded with that job.

I do wonder ElderlyPerson if you are the sort of person who feels one is defined by ones job? He’s a lawyer, shes a doctor, somebody else is a plumber”
If so, that is a very blinkered and class-conscious way of looking at the world. An opera singer I know of had to take a job as a delivery driver during lockdown, -there being no furlough in the Arts, an actor is stacking shelves at Tesco. That has not made them any less talented, just responsible adults who had a family to feed and a mortgage to pay.
Would you view them differently?
I wonder what they felt about their Census form, but suspect it was the least of their worries!

EP I have read and followed this thread and I’m sad that a number of events in your past seem to be eating you up inside. Maybe you need to discuss this with someone so you can, as most of us do, accept that was then, this is now and enjoy life in the present.
I filled out the census as I do most obligatory forms, factually, including my, birth place as Pakistan, not for a millisecond did I think any more about it.
Your past is that, past; try and move away from it for today, the now.

That's probably where I got the idea.

Callistemon

muffinthemoo

If this forum wasn’t mostly frequented by retired folk, I would suspect your last occupation was exotic dancer… Which it’s clearly not, so chin up, other folk have been writing much racier things on the census than you

I imagined that ElderlyPerson could be male, muffinthemoo

That conjures up quite a picture!

I am male. I stated that in

www.gransnet.com/forums/other_subjects/1297377-Why-is-drinking-alcohol-so-popular

I don't remember offhand if you posted in that thread.

I would not know if you just read it.

M0nica

Elderlyperson I am really struggling to work out what is at the bottom of all your concerns.

To begin with, the letter and the threat of £!,000 fine is just the standard threat that is attached to any demand from the government and is just there way of saying you have to fill in this form.

It has been explained several times that no one has any interest in a single form, it is meaningles until aggregated with millions of others.

As Mawbe says YABU, you are overthinking, conflating all sorts of issues, bearing grudges for whatever reason and fretting about something which is PAST and not the massive issue you have blown it up to be. Dinner queues, early retirement, redundancy, feeling humiliated, slaves given their owners names or you feeling “branded.

Whatis it that lies underneath these concerns and is your real worry.

You refer to them as slaves and owners. Lots of teachers, books and television programmes did and do. I say victims of slavery and their oppressors. There is a difference.

Your question in the last sentence is insightful. I don't know offhand. I shall need to think about that. Maybe you and others might have ideas.

muffinthemoo

If this forum wasn’t mostly frequented by retired folk, I would suspect your last occupation was exotic dancer… Which it’s clearly not, so chin up, other folk have been writing much racier things on the census than you

I imagined that ElderlyPerson could be male, muffinthemoo

That conjures up quite a picture!

SueDonim

Are you saying people should lie about where they were born, Elderlyperson? My dh’s family were both India army families. My sister-in-law was also born abroad, in Africa. Because their father was India-born and nationality was only passed down through fathers back then, she wasn’t considered a British citizen but she fulfilled the requirements they wanted and a passport was issued.

I too think you’re overthinking this. What could possibly be the consequence of what job you put on the census form? If you depend on others to validate your life, maybe you need to consider changing that.

Not at all.

But an official question should not be phrased in such a way as to distort the truth.

So the lady was born in a British East Africa, a British colony at the time of her birth, She was not born in Tanzania, though that was the country that contained the place where she was born when the census was taken.

My objection over the census question that has upset me is that the rotten event was over, gone into the past, I have done other things, just not in paid employment as I could not get another job. My age went against me, and my experience was mostly highly specialised anyway and most jobs wanted specific experience. Then came the 2011 census and it dug it up again for me, then again in 2021. If I live until 2031 I expect that I will have to go through it all again.

I doubt if it is just me. There are people in their 40s now probably who lost their job due to stores closing down as in the news, who may never work again and will have to keep writing it down every ten years.

What frightened me into submission was that in 2001 a man was fined because he wanted to put English as his nationality, but was required to put British, whereas Welsh people and Scottish people could put their nationality.

It can be ambiguous to put British because being British does not necessarily mean that one can live in the United Kingdom as of right, whereas Full United Kingdom Citizen does.

As for validation of my life, that is an interesting topic.

Some people view others based on the car they drive, with no regard as to whether it is paid for or not.

The NHS and public libraries view people just because they exist.

I have done reasonably well I suppose. Not as well as many, more fortunate than many - somewhere in the middle.

I like to think that whatever people have done to me or that I have had to put up with that I have always been honest, considerate and fair to others.

I don't get it when politicians get some movie star or singer up on stage to endorse them - alright, I like their movie or their singing but their political opinion is of no more validity than that of anybody else. I wonder if it is counterproductive, both for politician and 'celebrity'.

If this forum wasn’t mostly frequented by retired folk, I would suspect your last occupation was exotic dancer… Which it’s clearly not, so chin up, other folk have been writing much racier things on the census than you

Elderlyperson I am really struggling to work out what is at the bottom of all your concerns.

To begin with, the letter and the threat of £!,000 fine is just the standard threat that is attached to any demand from the government and is just there way of saying you have to fill in this form.

It has been explained several times that no one has any interest in a single form, it is meaningles until aggregated with millions of others.

As Mawbe says YABU, you are overthinking, conflating all sorts of issues, bearing grudges for whatever reason and fretting about something which is PAST and not the massive issue you have blown it up to be. Dinner queues, early retirement, redundancy, feeling humiliated, slaves given their owners names or you feeling “branded.

Whatis it that lies underneath these concerns and is your real worry.

Are you saying people should lie about where they were born, Elderlyperson? My dh’s family were both India army families. My sister-in-law was also born abroad, in Africa. Because their father was India-born and nationality was only passed down through fathers back then, she wasn’t considered a British citizen but she fulfilled the requirements they wanted and a passport was issued.

I too think you’re overthinking this. What could possibly be the consequence of what job you put on the census form? If you depend on others to validate your life, maybe you need to consider changing that.