Grandchild lives in squalor

agree with foxie.
any kind of offer of cleaning is a criticism and may lead to a breakdown in relations.
just continue being friendly and supportive.
if she needs anything she is then more likely to ask you.
anything to do with cleaning from MILs is red rage time on MN.

Loving mum but dirty house v clean house and not loving mum? No contest, I'd go for the former every time. We all have different standards, (there was a v long thread about people who required visitors to take off their shoes before entering the house...really!!!!) I'd totally ignore it, give your dil loads of praise for being a fab mum, offer unobtrusive help when you can but please don't ever criticise the way she keeps her home and don't offer to clean it for her. Give her and your DGS loads of love and support and accept that things aren't perfect. She's a great mem and you are a great Grandmother, please don't risk compromising that.

Grannynise, I am shocked !!!

Nippysweety, you are such a lovely Gran and MIL. ……

Yes, I have often thought how much worse it would be if the flat was clean but she wasn't a good Mum, that would be a much more devastating situation for my Grandson and I am so grateful that is not the case.

Thanks for the wise words of advice and caution, I will tread delicately

DD2 is a single parent and works 4 days a week. DGS2 is 3. Since she moved back to her house when he was a few months old (was in abusive relationship, partner on drugs, she was confined to bedroom with baby - he and 2 dogs had rest of house - her house - and rest of house was manky and a tip) I have helped her doing washing, dishes, hoovering etc when I look after DGS. She does rest in-between. It works well and she appreciates what I do but we have always talked about things. It is hard being a single parent and no-one else to help. In DD1 house when we visit we do anything that needs done usually dry dishes, hang washing up. She has DSiL to help. We did more when she had her babies as DGS1 was 9 weeks early and in NNU and when DGD was born DD was left with gammy foot after epidural so we helped a lot then too. It depends on relationship you have but I would caution about being blunt as that may end badly for everyone.

Maybe she is depressed. A chat with her is surely a way to go. Don't come down heavily on the dirtiness but I do think offering to help if you can, and want to, is a good idea.

Those animals in a confined space sound too many!

After my dad died, my DM suffered from depression and the 3 of us must have been, or at least looked, neglected because the rumour got back to mum that Mrs so and so had noticed things crawling in our hair but instead of helping, which DM would have preferred, she just gossiped.

Mum was happier when friends took us away and washed us and fed us, which is what you are already doing.

As Grannynise wisely says, "tread very very carefully." We were in a similar situation to yours some years ago and when the opportunity presented for us to clean up, we did. Big regret. It's one of the few things that I roll around in my mind that I wish I could do over.

I think some people just don’t see the mess and dirt, however if the little boy is becoming grubby and dishevelled that is a different matter and it might become a child protection issue if his school notices it. There is also the question ,of hygiene, particularly in these covid times. But if his mum Is a good, loving parent that is the most important thing. Go on supporting her and maybe discreetly offer a little help with housework, on the grounds she is so busy you feel sorry that she has so much to do and would like to help?

*As for the risk of being bullied, if it has to happen, it will happen anyway
You can get bullied for your hair colour, name or last name, how you walk, etc.*

But you can’t do anything about that (well dye your hair I guess) but being smelly and dirty is preventable.

I have an excellent relationship with my daughter except in one respect. I offered help - gently, kindly, tactfully I thought - as she was a working single mum - and have not been allowed to enter her house since. This has been for 10 years now. Tread very very carefully. I wish I'd never said a word.

All the best Nippysweety, how good you are supporting her.

This is a really delicate one. Lots of praise needed to start then I would offer to buy new school uniform and shoes I do this for my GC anyway and it is appreciated. Then when you shop look for the 3 for two or two for one offers on shampoo etc and cleaning products.
If his clothes smell has she got a tumble dryer you could offer to buy a cheap one for Christmas. Or sound her out as other posters have said and get her a cleaner perhaps once a month for the house and the ironing.
I think you are doing really well but it must be like walking on glass.

I'd offer to help with housework too. Maybe you could do the laundry for her? Still, she's a good mum - and that's the important thing.

(I was brought up in a spotless house, wore lovely clean smart clothes - but there was no love from my mother - so I'd swap with your grandson in an instant.)

Nippysweety, it is a dilema and I can well understand how you feel about your GS living in that environment. On the plus side he has a Mum who is working hard and loves her son. Imagine how much worse you would feel if the flat was spotless but she was an incompetent mother !? Little consolation I know but worth thinking about. I think the suggestion that you could offer some time to help her tidy up ( tidy up is a kinder description than ' clean up' ) because your son is not there to do his share is a sound idea. I hope things improve , but in the meantime try and maintain a sound relationship with her. Fingers crossed ? for a satisfying outcome.

Ah Nippysweety, I just wanted to say that you sound like a lovely, caring gran and mother in law. I'm sure you'll handle the conversation well x

Sending you best wishes Nippysweety and hope that you can get something sorted out.

Thanks so much for all the comments and suggestions, much appreciated. I think I will have to have the difficult conversation and be as diplomatic as possible. I will also offer an intensive few days of deep clean to give her a new start and clean slate, as it where. I have my grandson every Sunday, often overnight. He always has a shower, washes hair and he has his own clothes, underwear etc at my house. More exciting toiletries are a good idea.
The problem with the pets is really there are too many in a small 2 bedroom flat, a dog and 2 cats and Mum just doesn't have the time to look after them properly, with the best intentions.
Anyway, thanks again for the advise, its not something I could discuss with anyone in real life so I do value the input.

Perhaps as a start, offer to decorate grandsons bedroom as a Christmas present. He'd choose decor and new bedding. Ask Mum first if she'd allow you both to do it? Then one room would be clean, and it might give opportunity for future help.

You could rope grandad in to do some decorating for her (starting with grandsons bedroom) and hope that she might get the urge to have a spring clean before it's done.

You could have a friend of a friend who is starting their own business as a cleaner and needs work, so offer to help out by letting the friend of a friend clean your house and your daughter-in-laws too.
Doggy daycare, if the animals are left alone while she is out of the house?

Do you know the mother's own parents and are they local? This is a horrible situation for you.

If your little grandson is starting to look disheveled and not clean, other children can be so cruel, picking up on it. It a very delicate situation, could you offer to clean just the bathroom and kitchen in a way that wouldn’t offend her, she really needs to do something now, he will want friends home and when mothers see the mess when they collect their child they will have their own thoughts. It needs addressing I’m afraid. If I had him for a sleepover, I would wash his clothes and put him in new ones that you saw whilst out and couldn’t resist. Ibwould also make sure he had a bath and his hair washed and certainly buy him his own toiletry bag and contents. Best if he could go out with you and get invoked seeing what fragrance he wants. Nearly all grandparents buy nice clothes etc for their gc.

When I did/do support work there really is not a level of cleanliness as to how people live. I used to go in and just generally start washing up/tidying up, folding washing etc

I suspect my own home was a bit of a mess when mine were small. I used to cover piles of stuff with throws etc. I never wanted any help to tidy it. So I think you have to trust your instincts

You could perhaps tell a white lie, say you're going to find a cleaner, as you need a bit of help indoors, then, as an "afterthought", ask if she would like you to pay for a couple of hours cleaning for her, too.

What is the problem with the pets, also? Can you think of what could improve things in that area?