Schoolkids banned from local supermarket

JaneJudge

Teenagers have always messed around and been a handful

True. I think parents have changed a lot though in how they support schools etc trying to deal with it.

SpanielNanny

*When I was at school we were not allowed eat on the street while wearing our school uniform. None of our parents had an issue with it!*

Is this not just an example of societal norms evolving? I really don’t remember anybody eating in the street when I was a child. Telling a child not to eat in the streets wasn’t seen as odd, because eating in the streets wasn’t done. Most parents now grew up when eating in the streets was normal. It’s not viewed as poor manners anymore. They would naturally question why their children couldn’t eat in the streets, because they’ve never believed it was inappropriate.
Much the same as my parents never thought it odd that, no matter how cold it was, I wasn’t allowed to wear trousers to school. Nowadays parents would rightly object if schools tried to force their daughters to wear skirts.

Lots of people ate on the street in the 70s when I was at school. Not burgers and pizza slices admittedly, but sweets, chocolate and crisps. However our school said 'not while in uniform' and no one questioned it.

Children “will get away” with whatever they are allowed to get away with. Parents school and society in general, could and should do much more to promote good behavior, including parent own behavior.

JaneJudge

Teenagers have always messed around and been a handful

And learnt that others wouldn't tolerate it. Part of gradually morphing into civilised beings.

For those who think they should not be banned - While they are wearing their uniform, they are identifiable as pupils at a certain school. If you imagine a hundred nurses in the distinctive colours of the local hospital elbowing other shoppers out of the way, a hundred police arriving in squad cars with sirens blazing and parking them sideways over the disabled spaces, a hundred lollipop men complete with lollipops ready to batter a path to the front of the queue, or a hundred yellow-jacketed Council litterpickers with sacks that they filled with goods and carried straight out without paying, all repeated every day while other customers stayed away would you be surprised if the supermarket sent an ultimatum to their bosses, threatening to ban their employees if it continued, and carried out their threat?

Or do you really think that the supermarket should ignore the aggression, theft and anarchy and continue to lose money from both shoplifting and loss of other customers? Or that young thugs in the making should learn they don't have to face the consequences of their actions and the annoyance of thei peers?

Wow! I had no idea the situation was so bad in supermarkets as I don't tend to be there when school's out. I was once nearly knocked over by a boy riding his scooter round the aisles of the small local Co op, and the staff did nothing to prevent him. I knew the Headmaster, a strict disciplinarian, and said I was sure he would be interested to hear about it; the boy dismounted immediately and apologised.

Schools by and large seem to be imposing discipline successfully within school hours, but cannot police their pupils outside school hours, and so many parents simply cannot be bothered. But of course defying school rules openly by taking children out of school without permission has nothing to do with it.

Teenagers have always messed around and been a handful

A very difficult, inner city school I worked at once, had the police come in. We had an assembly and the head policeman of the group eyed the students, listed the things that had been going on (firework petrol bombs, I kid you not) and said, 'We have you on CCTV. I see some of you here. We WILL be knocking on your doors.'

I was horrified. I didn't live in the area, just worked there. They were lovely children, in school.

Lucca

Quite simple …schools should not allow students to leave at lunchtime with exception of sixth form who one hopes have learnt how to behave.
Oh dear I do sound a bit po faced.

Those were exactly the rules when I was at school Oh how we loved to saunter off site once in the sixth form even though there was actually nowhere to go, not a single shop nearby ?

“Is this not just an example of societal norms evolving?”

One would would hope the aim was to improve societies norms, no become a free for all.

Where I live the super market car park is used by parents as a drop off and pick up point ,You have to time your visit to get a park.
I agree about badly behaved children but it's not just teenagers. I saw a mother with three children in her trolley she could barely push it, when approached she gave out a mouth full of abuse. I have also been verbally attacked myself for parking too close to a car . I was dead centre of the parking bay but the mother had what amounted to a

When I was at school we were not allowed eat on the street while wearing our school uniform. None of our parents had an issue with it!

Is this not just an example of societal norms evolving? I really don’t remember anybody eating in the street when I was a child. Telling a child not to eat in the streets wasn’t seen as odd, because eating in the streets wasn’t done. Most parents now grew up when eating in the streets was normal. It’s not viewed as poor manners anymore. They would naturally question why their children couldn’t eat in the streets, because they’ve never believed it was inappropriate.
Much the same as my parents never thought it odd that, no matter how cold it was, I wasn’t allowed to wear trousers to school. Nowadays parents would rightly object if schools tried to force their daughters to wear skirts.

Whilst I have sympathy for those parents complaining on behalf of their "well behaved" children, when did it become the norm for everything to be aimed at the convenience and "rights" of children?

I disagree with blaming the heads of school and teachers - good behaviour should be taught at home. We have all seen children running around shops, supermarkets, restaurants and cafes annoying everyone whilst being ignored by parents. I have even seen children taking toys from shelves, opening the packaging, playing with the toy and then discarding it on the floor - all the while the parent standing by engrossed in their phone!

Quite simple …schools should not allow students to leave at lunchtime with exception of sixth form who one hopes have learnt how to behave.
Oh dear I do sound a bit po faced.

2 at a time is the best rule, those that need to do shopping get it done the rest will go away and be a nuisance elsewhere. Standards have dropped considerably when I was at school any misbehavior when in school uniform was jumped on immediately, it was a school that valued its good reputation.

SpanielNanny

But you said yourself Beswitched those rules are tightened for everyone . We don’t cherry pick a specific demographic (although undoubtably prejudices do exist). At the airport we don’t say XYZ will be security checked, everyone else can carry on as normal.

I used to work in a supermarket, our biggest loss came from men stealing meat, alcohol and razors. Literally into the thousands some months. I can also think of at least 3 occasions where a staff member was assaulted in the process. Can you imagine making this same proposal in that circumstance? Only 2 men in at time, the rest can queue. There would (rightly) be uproar. I can guarantee they were costing the store more than these children.

I take your point. However the children are only not allowed in whke wearing their uniform. They can go in any other time they like.

The supermarket is a private business and employer that needs to retain its customer base to remain viable. They cannot do that if a large cohort is being driven away by large groups of school kids descending at the same time every day. Neither can they risk large compensation and injury claims also caused by these groups.

If a group of employees from a local business were arriving in together every day and causing chaos and danger by arsing around together, running up and down the aisles, knocking over displays etc I think the supermarket would be perfectly justified in taking similar steps.

Good. I’m sick of badly behaved kids and their parents blaming everyone else.

I wish they’d all do it,

SpanielNanny the children who behave themselves in supermarkets (and elsewhere) will be very well aware of which of their classmates have caused the whole school to be banned. They know just who are the second-class citizens, and it isn't them, it is those who acted like selfish thieving bullies. That will have been reinforced by the talk that has doubtless been given them by their teachers, on how the school is judged by the actions of the lowest common denominator. Letters home to every parent (posted, not handed to the offending miscreants to deliver safely) should explain the situation and get the parents onside.

I’m with the supermarket on this one.

We avoid the local shops and buses at lunchtime and after school, so really, the kids are excluding us, changing our behaviour.

Still, now I live just a mile away from where I grew up. I remember being part of that annoying, loud, over-excited crowd at 3.30 pm and seeing the disapproving faces of the 'oldies'. The school banned us from using local buses, following complaints of pushing and queue jumping. We had to walk instead and it did us no harm.

We didn't go into shops, though, I had no money, just an apple in my satchel!

My sister in law is a school secretary and says she spends half her time dealing with complaints about pupils' behaviour in the nearby large shopping centre after school. It's outside of school hours so isn't even strictly speaking their responsibility.

The Head has considered a rule saying children are not to go in there while still wearing their uniform, but it's fraught with difficulties and she knows she'd have parents down on her like a ton of bricks complaining about their children's human rights etc etc

When I was at school we were not allowed eat on the street while wearing our school uniform. None of our parents had an issue with it!

The shop should send CCTV footage to the school and this to be shown to the kids on a big screen so they can see their behaviour. Discussion afterwards.
We were always expected to behave in uniform because it was a reflection on the school. Ultimately, it's the headteacher who sets the standards of pride in the school. Bad behaviour from the kids shows the headteacher is not sending out the right message.

My elder son was beaten up very badly by a known bully at school. The school rang me at work to say he had been taken to a dentist as his tooth was knocked out. Now my son was a gentle boy who was harassed at lunchtime when he was trying to work. The bully was interviewed by the head and told he could stay at school until he finished his GCSEs. The head also wrote to my son congratulating him on not retaliating! My son took up tae kwondo and later joined the Royal Marines. Significant? 'In the meantime, after his exams, the bully was sent to stay with relatives in the US. I can’t forget a ‘friend’ expressing amazement that this boy was a bully - ‘but he comes from a lovely Christian family…’

nandad that's how my grandson's secondary school deals with home time and hordes of pupils going to local bus stops. Staff and prefects monitor and punish anti-social behaviour.

But you said yourself Beswitched those rules are tightened for everyone . We don’t cherry pick a specific demographic (although undoubtably prejudices do exist). At the airport we don’t say XYZ will be security checked, everyone else can carry on as normal.

I used to work in a supermarket, our biggest loss came from men stealing meat, alcohol and razors. Literally into the thousands some months. I can also think of at least 3 occasions where a staff member was assaulted in the process. Can you imagine making this same proposal in that circumstance? Only 2 men in at time, the rest can queue. There would (rightly) be uproar. I can guarantee they were costing the store more than these children.