Schoolkids banned from local supermarket

Parenting, or lack of it, sadly is the root of this.
The shops suffer bad behaviour, and shop lifting, and lose adult customers.
Naming and shaming is one way of reducing this.
In Sussex, our local bus company would take a bus that had been damaged, to the school and the children had to sit in their seats again.
Bills for cleaning / repairs reduced the incidence!

I wonder how many parents of 'the well behaved children' would be so proud of them if shown videos of them acting up with their mates?
What sort of punishment would they give to the children?
Maybe they should just be allowed in with their parents!!
I say good on the managers/owners for doing this.

I agree Sarnia that where at all possible the perpetrators should be identified and punished. But when you have large groups of people all of the same age and wearing identical clothes it can be difficult to single out individuals. A friend was telling me of a situation in her local shopping centre where schoolkids used to race each other up the down escalators and down the up escalators. It was hugely dangerous for everyone else on the escalator. Most of the kids had their hoods up and the school staff couldn't make definite identifications from CCTV.

The only choice was to have already busy teachers, with lives and families of their own, patrol the shopping centre for at least an hour every evening after school, or to ban all kids wearing that uniform from the shopping centre.
So the latter solution was chosen. It really isn't the job of teachers to be acting as security staff on buses and in shops.

Good for the supermarket. They didn't really have a choice. However, it might be fairer for the supermarket to use their CCTV cameras to identify those responsible and not to include all children wearing that school's uniform. I have never agreed with punishments which include the innocent with the perpetrators. Most unfair.

Beswitched

When I was at school you either brought in a packed lunch or went home for something to eat. It must cost parents a fortune handing out money to their kids for a shop bought lunch every day.

That's an interesting point Beswitched.

I'm sure it would be cheaper to make a sandwich than dole out for the supermarket every day - especially for those parents who've got more than one extra mouth to feed.

Without wishing to sound like a grumpy old woman (and probably failing) - what's wrong with the playground at lunch break? Surely there's seating where the kids can sit and munch, and then muck around and let off steam?... they don't have that much time anyway. I know I'd personally prefer my offspring to be on the school premises during the day - or come home. I don't think wandering around shopping malls and supermarkets is a 'healthy' way to spend their downtime - tho' it probably does teach them to be good little consumers...

My parents definitely didnt know where I was during the school day. My teachers used to send us out to do their shopping. Often in lessons.

Surely, the simple solution would be that they aren't allowed off the school premises during school hours. When I was at school, and when my kids were teenagers, students had to either have written consent from parents to be allowed home for lunch (throughout the term, not just the odd day when they feel like it), or had school lunches/packed lunch. The schools were responsible for the health & safety of the students during the school day.

Why is it now acceptable for them to be allowed to roam the streets/supermarkets/shopping malls, and cause a nuisance to other people, and shop owners? We all know that teenagers often get up to mischief (even the well-behaved ones can be lead astray!). As a parent, I'd rather know where they are during the day, but we all know that there are some parents who simply don't care what they're up to.

nandad

At my son’s secondary school students weren’t allowed out at lunchtime, they either took a packed lunch or had a school dinner. I believe this is still the case there. At my nephew’s school, in a different town, teachers stood outside the shop where large numbers of pupils congregated and were dealt with immediately if they were being anti-social.

At many local shops that are close to schools teachers from the school are on duty at the door to restrict numbers and deal with problems. Even so I tend to avoid such times as I cannot stand for long in a queue.

Before I started teaching, I used to be wary of groups of teenagers on the street and would often cross the road to avoid them. However, after teaching in a tough, inner city comprehensive school, I was no longer as concerned as I was more aware that most teenagers were lovely people and were not necessarily going to mug me! I often smile at a group as I walk up, say hello or something else politely and find that they respond well.

When I was at school you either brought in a packed lunch or went home for something to eat. It must cost parents a fortune handing out money to their kids for a shop bought lunch every day.

We only have one secondary school where I live. The students are not permitted to leave the school premises at lunch time - this rule doesn’t include 6th formers. The whole school only has 40mins for their lunch. Early morning and after school some shops have signs saying how many youngsters are permitted at once.

Someone who works in the supermarket told me they probably will bring in the 2 at a time rule next term. They're just trying to send out a strong message at the moment in the hopes that the better behaved kids will be annoyed with the messers and bring a bit of peer pressure to bear.

It's difficult to know what to do about the (hopefully) minority of rowdy, disruptive school children in local shops and supermarkets. When their behaviour ends up causing someone an injury, then obviously something has to be done.

What are the schools themselves doing about it?

I think at the moment, the "two only at any one time" is the best and fairest way of dealing with the problem as it doesn't punish those kids who are innocent. It may take a bit longer for them to get served but if they are genuinely there to get something to eat, they should be able to nip in and out fairly quickly. Perhaps a dedicated check-out till at the appropriate time might be a good idea, so they don't have to queue behind those with full trolleys?

We have the same problem in our small town - but often the kids are just simply unaware that they're crowding the pavement in groups - they're not really intent on causing trouble and are quite apologetic when they realise they're causing a problem.

It's the same-old-same old. A minority of unruly kids acting like little oiks because their parents simply can't be bothered to teach them to behave. When you see some of the parents dropping off their younger offspring still dressed in their pyjamas, it does make you wonder how much they care about such things as discipline. I might get shot down in flames for even mentioning that, I know, because so many people believe that it doesn't matter if they are still in their nightclothes - and maybe I'm wrong, and maybe it doesn't matter, but I don't think it sets a good example to children.

I don't mind kids being noisy or being a tad lacking in awareness - they're full of life, energy, and natural enthusiasm. One such, who was shouting and waving his arms around in all directions the other day offered to carry my heavy shopping bags back to the car. It's just a minority of little louts-in-the-making who are intent on being a PITA.

Summerlove

Elegran

SpanielNanny the children who behave themselves in supermarkets (and elsewhere) will be very well aware of which of their classmates have caused the whole school to be banned. They know just who are the second-class citizens, and it isn't them, it is those who acted like selfish thieving bullies. That will have been reinforced by the talk that has doubtless been given them by their teachers, on how the school is judged by the actions of the lowest common denominator. Letters home to every parent (posted, not handed to the offending miscreants to deliver safely) should explain the situation and get the parents onside.

But the well behaved are still being treated as second class by being unable to go where they could before.

What a lowly opinion you have of school children

No. Summerlove I have a realistic opinion of some schoolchildren, just as I have a realistic opinion of some adults. The majority don't shoplift or knock over old ladies as they run amok in supermarkets. Identifying exactly which of the crowds of teenagers and children thronging a supermarket in their lunch hour are the ones who are being anti-social is not an easy task. Banning those individuals is even harder, particularly as the parents of the worst behaved may also be the most vocal and belligerent of all the parents in the school, and quite ready to visit the shop and threaten to duff up the staff if their little angel is "discriminated against" A general ban on any pupils from a school with a lot of offenders is likely to have an effect in causing a tightening of disciplinary action and an improvement in behaviour.
Plus, as I have said, those pupils who are there to buy something to eat and to hang out peacefully with their friends are well aware of who the troublemakers are and what specific events were the last straw, and their resentment is against them, for getting everyone banned, not against the supermarket. Children have a keen sense of what is fair.

A simple solution would be for the school to set up their own snack bar, our local secondary has one and students aren't allowed off grounds at lunchtime

Beswitched

JaneJudge

I like their vegetable slices. You used to be able to get them from iceland but I've not seen them listed on their website for ages

Beswitched, I have a teenager, he is spoken to about any unsavoury behaviour. We aren't all the same

No apologies I don't mean all parents. But an increasing number seem to be more concerned about their children's rights and entitlements than about how they behave towards other. That significant minority are making it very difficult for schools to maintain discipline.

I do agree but I think this emphasis on rights and entitlement is present throughout society. It's seen as reactionary to think that every right comes with a corresponding responsibility, but if everybody embraced that principle it would be more enjoyable for all.

Elegran

SpanielNanny the children who behave themselves in supermarkets (and elsewhere) will be very well aware of which of their classmates have caused the whole school to be banned. They know just who are the second-class citizens, and it isn't them, it is those who acted like selfish thieving bullies. That will have been reinforced by the talk that has doubtless been given them by their teachers, on how the school is judged by the actions of the lowest common denominator. Letters home to every parent (posted, not handed to the offending miscreants to deliver safely) should explain the situation and get the parents onside.

But the well behaved are still being treated as second class by being unable to go where they could before.

What a lowly opinion you have of school children

There should be a statutory standard of behavior from nursery onwards and parents should be directly involved if behavior falls below standard. If needed parents should receive remediation if they fall below standard.

Will it happen - not a chance.

JaneJudge

I like their vegetable slices. You used to be able to get them from iceland but I've not seen them listed on their website for ages

Beswitched, I have a teenager, he is spoken to about any unsavoury behaviour. We aren't all the same

No apologies I don't mean all parents. But an increasing number seem to be more concerned about their children's rights and entitlements than about how they behave towards other. That significant minority are making it very difficult for schools to maintain discipline.

Surely it isn't down to just the school to teach good manners and behaviour - this should be taught at home BEFORE they start school.
Should be yes. And maybe this is taught at home. But when a large group get together you know their behaviour changes. Children and teens become a 'mob' and they don't think as individuals. If some are behaving badly it can affect the whole group, some will go along with it just because they are in a group. They will always do what they can get away with. It is mostly down to what boundaries have been established by the school and the shop regarding behaviour.

Time the schools started to step up and take some responsibility. It can be done - my nephew’s secondary school had a dreadful reputation a couple of years ago and now encourages local businesses to report any bad behaviour from students and to provide photo/cctv footage where it’s available. There’s a naming and shaming policy and there are various punishments. The parents are always involved too, so they can’t say they’re not aware of what their kids are up to. Time was, bad behaviour was a reflection on the parents and the reputation of the school itself. How times have changed.

Candelle

Have I missed something in this discussion? Where is the input from the school? Surely there would have been a discussion twixt supermarket and school?

The behaviour described by the original poster is unacceptable anywhere and if the children are allowed to carry on they will assume that it is the norm. 'Yobby' children will become 'yobby' adults.

The school needs to make a stand to show how people should behave. Yes, I was once a silly teenager and well remember doing some daft things but would never have dared bring my school into disrepute. I would have quaked if I had been spotted by a prefect or staff member if behaving so badly.

Not too far from my house is a school who now frequently has two police officers standing at bus stops by the school at the end of the school day. Why is this bad behaviour condoned by everyone? I genuinely do not understand why standards have dropped so much (and I know I sound old but surely polite behaviour will help these youngsters with their futures)? The school I mentioned above used to have a high reputation but in recent years behaviour has changed alarmingly.

It is people such as the elderly lady who was pushed over in the OP's post who has paid the price. Bad behaviour can be stopped with a commitment from the school.

I would contact the school and ask for contact details of the Chair of Governors (carbon copy the Head Teacher) and follow through to a meeting with him/her and ask what is going to be done about their pupils' poor behaviour. It is affecting the children, the school, the supermarket and the general public, too nervous to shop at certain times.

If parents of these children are unhappy, they should police the situation themselves.

This situation can be changed but not overnight and will take commitment from everyone concerned. Good luck!

Surely it isn't down to just the school to teach good manners and behaviour - this should be taught at home BEFORE they start school.

I like their vegetable slices. You used to be able to get them from iceland but I've not seen them listed on their website for ages

Beswitched, I have a teenager, he is spoken to about any unsavoury behaviour. We aren't all the same

Another school I worked at stationed a member of staff on the front door of Greggs. To stop the students getting in and causing mayhem. Greggs was banned for them, but they used it anyway. So a big PE teacher stood there all lunchtime and turned them away.

Hope he got a free pie for his troubles!

Have I missed something in this discussion? Where is the input from the school? Surely there would have been a discussion twixt supermarket and school?

The behaviour described by the original poster is unacceptable anywhere and if the children are allowed to carry on they will assume that it is the norm. 'Yobby' children will become 'yobby' adults.

The school needs to make a stand to show how people should behave. Yes, I was once a silly teenager and well remember doing some daft things but would never have dared bring my school into disrepute. I would have quaked if I had been spotted by a prefect or staff member if behaving so badly.

Not too far from my house is a school who now frequently has two police officers standing at bus stops by the school at the end of the school day. Why is this bad behaviour condoned by everyone? I genuinely do not understand why standards have dropped so much (and I know I sound old but surely polite behaviour will help these youngsters with their futures)? The school I mentioned above used to have a high reputation but in recent years behaviour has changed alarmingly.

It is people such as the elderly lady who was pushed over in the OP's post who has paid the price. Bad behaviour can be stopped with a commitment from the school.

I would contact the school and ask for contact details of the Chair of Governors (carbon copy the Head Teacher) and follow through to a meeting with him/her and ask what is going to be done about their pupils' poor behaviour. It is affecting the children, the school, the supermarket and the general public, too nervous to shop at certain times.

If parents of these children are unhappy, they should police the situation themselves.

This situation can be changed but not overnight and will take commitment from everyone concerned. Good luck!

We had to put a ban on kid from our local school 25 years ago,we had a mini-lab and camera shop on the high street and they would come in by the dozen at lunchtime .One would have a film to be processed and the others just took up all the space .It wasn' so bad if there were a few of us on the shop floor but sometimes we were down to one or two members of staff .Try asking teenagers to leave without being verbally abused!
On one of these days we lost over £2000 worth of cameras from a showcase .Of course our insurance wouldn't pay up because we had insufficient staff to control the horde even though the lock had clearly been tampered with .Upshot was no unaccompanied kids of any school allowed in .There was an article about us in the local paper about us demonising innocent children ,didn't change our minds though .