To think we should let scientific advisers advise?

If I was in the middle of a personal crisis I would wish for Chris Whitty to be around. He seems very level headed, sensible, straight talking intelligent and acting for the good of the nation. Boris on the other had is none of these, the more he says the more he confuses. I feel that Chris Whitty expressed exactly what a lot of us have been practising throughout, that we need to assess our personal risk and prioritise our contacts.
The South African situation is totally different to ours, population is younger, we do not know how this new variant reacts on vaccinated people, less vaccinated in SA but many have a built immunity. The South African lady “ expert “ who gets wheeled out is a doctor, clever lady I am sure but not a Covid expert and only one voice.

Totally agree.

Scientists have been trying to advise governments for years, sometimes it works aka about 30 years ago introducing the flu jab that people get every winter without even thinking why they are getting it. In another 30 years we will be getting vaccines/tablets to counter all sorts of virus strains that will spread due to our increasing amounts of travel, people moving to settle in new countries, working abroad and a whole host of reasons for diseases to spread. Science and research have now come out of the shadows and for once are being properly funded to keep us alive.

I have often seen people who oppose restrictions say that "we have to learn to live with this disease." Surely that's what the restrictions are all about. Getting vaccinated, wearing masks in public areas, proving that you have had a negative test before you enter a crowd, making careful decisions about socialising when the infection rate is high, and generally being responsive to changes such as new variants... These things allow us to live with Covid, rather than the alternatives of locking the country down completely or seeing people dying like flies.

We can relax or tighten restrictions according to decreases or increases in the level of risk, and that way we can live with it.

I think that when people say "we must learn to live with it", what they often mean is "we must ignore it as if it has gone away."

M0nica

Agree with you wholeheartedly. Chris Whitty's opinion is his interpretation of the medical facts whereas as you say M0nica there are other equally valid and credible interpretations but as these do not fit in with the current narrative they are not even given air time. Why anyone thinks he would make a good prime minister is beyond me! Just my opinion which I am allowed to have and state as many others do on this board.

You are also correct about the harmful effect that all of these constant threats of lockdown, warnings and prophets of doom and gloom are having on our economy, people's health [not just mental health]. When the supermarkets are empty because everyone is isolating [even if they're not ill] and the doctors and nurses who worked throughout the pandemic [sometimes without adequate protection and no vaccines ]lose their jobs because they are unwilling to take a vaccine that we now know is relatively ineffective and certainly does not protect against the Omicron variant and that little cafe or bar that you like goes under through lack of funding staff or business, or all normal services are under constraint etc, etc, then everyone will be complaining about the adverse effects of the government's measures.

We should foster natural immunity, and those of you who want to stay cloistered in your own little world for the time being, can do so without fear of catching a cold, flu, or the omicron variant. Besides testing not vaccines is the way to go, as we all know now that even if you've been triple jabbed you can still catch and carry covid, it's everywhere, it makes more sense to show regular tests not an out of date or ineffective vaccine passport. Many people also can show antibodies through natural immunity. Let them get on with their lives otherwise life as you knew it, will never come back and we will be stuck in a perpetual cycle of vaccinations and lockdowns and a total breakdown of society and morals where the only people to benefit will be the pharma companies.

M0nica,

well done for fighting your corner when there are so many on here who do not even get what you are saying but put words in your mouth. Good that you have a balanced view and do your own research.

Franbern

Thanks Monica for coming on here and, (bravely) stating a reasoned case.

I am very disturbed as to the almost hysterical panic that seems to be around these days. I really wonder if there should also be a media list of the daily number of people ill with flu, or even the common cold. Yes, both of these do kill vulnerable people.

Also, what about about a daily number of those who have died premature from cancer due to treatments either being stopped, or started to late due to late diagnosis at this time.

When the fact that a death had occurred for someone from the Omicron variant the information on the age and non-vaccinated status of that victim have been given.

I accept that Prof (Next slide please) Whitty is an expert in his field - BUT as has been said, experts in this field are not all in agreement and our lives are made up of more than just one particular virus,.

As we have a clown as PM, and a government made up of people whose only expertise seems to be in lying and making vast profits from us poor suckers, think we are desperate to look to someone, anyone with an air of gravitas for leadership.

I am very disturbed as to the almost hysterical panic that seems to be around these days.

In what way have you noticed this hysterical panic?

The only hysteria I've seen has been (1) the media headlines - which the public don't create and (2) the aggressive and noisy anti-vaxxers, and those who refer to face-masks as "nappies" and keep urging us to "wake up sheeple" - usually on social media and often in CAPITAL LETTERS.

Is asking people to wear masks on overcrowded public transport and in supermarkets hysterical panic?

I think it's fair to say no-one could really want another lockdown but if they feel it's safer, there's not much to stop them. My sister in law has decided to forego a family Christmas this year. My son will drop in her gifts and a dinner but we don't blame her. I am staying home except for appointments like chiropodists. My offspring are largely working from home and testing before and after contact with others. We are all triple jabbed and will be sensible with regard to physical contact (much as I would like to smother my grandkids in kisses) so we will be having a family dinner which I regard as low risk. I think it's important to remember to keep some balance. There's no sense in avoiding your GP or A & E if you suspect things aren't right and then wind up with something terminal to avoid something which seems to hold less threat. We can't continually deny our children an education or social skills - everyone needs to hang on to a sense of proportion.

I noticed that it was stated that there had been one death 'with' Omicron, not 'from' Omicron. Is anyone aware of the actual cause of death, as in the U.K. a Covid death is the passing of someone who has tested positive in the last 28 days?

I am on the Whitty team.

mumofmadboys

Wouldn't it be wonderful to have someone as sensible and balanced as Chris Whitty for prime minister? Actually I think Nicola Sturgeon gives very clear directives too

Sturgeon..clear directives!!! Yes so did Hitler!!!!!

Do you actually live in Scotland mumof mad boys???

Don't know about Susysue but I live in Scotland.

Rules of the game - Godwin's law. You lose, sorry. Cheerio!!

Sorry, not susysue, I meant mumofmadboys

susysue loses, still, though

So sick of all these restricitions. We will have to live with the virus and that's the end of it. Get your jab and now let's all learn to get back to normal. The most important thing is the economy.

Dream on songstress60, the rest of us are bracing ourselves for a very tough few weeks.

topcat To get natural immunity, you first have to catch the disease so that your body can make the antibodies for it. These antibodies will be available to spring into action when you meet the disease the next time They are not ready to fight it the first time round.

So (as it says at www.webmd.com/vaccines/natural-immunity-overview )
"While it’s true that natural active immunity can make you immune to a disease after just a single case of infection, there is a downside: You have to get sick. And many illnesses can cause serious health issues that can affect you, sometimes for life."

You say -
"We should foster natural immunity, and those of you who want to stay cloistered in your own little world for the time being, can do so without fear of catching a cold, flu, or the omicron variant." but you have missed a vital point - this is a disease which can have life-threatening consequences to some patients, even young healthy ones, and certainly to the older ones or those with underlying health conditions. We auld yins may not still be around to catch it a second time. It can leave a patient still weakened for a long time, so even if we recover we may never be well again.

Most on this forum are over 60, many are over 70, and more than you would expect are over 80, or even 90. There are many threads about chronic illnesses, and many references to individual health conditions. We do not "want to stay cloistered in your own little world" , we want to enjoy our lives, please, but we also want to continue to live and be healthy for a few more years without the crippling longterm effect of CoVid.

The most important thing is our health and the health of our loved ones. You don’t know the value of good health until you no longer have it. It’s easier for the economy to recover than someone on a ventilator in an ICU.

That was to songstress.

Grantanow

Raab's PPS Morrissey should be sacked for attacking Chris Whitty. It is a source of encouragement to loony anti-vaxxers to attack him physically. We have seen in North Shropshire what voters now really think of Johnson and his Brexiteer plonkers. Thank God for Whitty, Valence, JVT and the other experts despised pre-Brexit by Gove.

I am in full agreement with you. If only the government were Sadiq khan has called a State of Emergency in London today.

topcat223

M0nica

Agree with you wholeheartedly. Chris Whitty's opinion is his interpretation of the medical facts whereas as you say M0nica there are other equally valid and credible interpretations but as these do not fit in with the current narrative they are not even given air time. Why anyone thinks he would make a good prime minister is beyond me! Just my opinion which I am allowed to have and state as many others do on this board.

You are also correct about the harmful effect that all of these constant threats of lockdown, warnings and prophets of doom and gloom are having on our economy, people's health [not just mental health]. When the supermarkets are empty because everyone is isolating [even if they're not ill] and the doctors and nurses who worked throughout the pandemic [sometimes without adequate protection and no vaccines ]lose their jobs because they are unwilling to take a vaccine that we now know is relatively ineffective and certainly does not protect against the Omicron variant and that little cafe or bar that you like goes under through lack of funding staff or business, or all normal services are under constraint etc, etc, then everyone will be complaining about the adverse effects of the government's measures.

We should foster natural immunity, and those of you who want to stay cloistered in your own little world for the time being, can do so without fear of catching a cold, flu, or the omicron variant. Besides testing not vaccines is the way to go, as we all know now that even if you've been triple jabbed you can still catch and carry covid, it's everywhere, it makes more sense to show regular tests not an out of date or ineffective vaccine passport. Many people also can show antibodies through natural immunity. Let them get on with their lives otherwise life as you knew it, will never come back and we will be stuck in a perpetual cycle of vaccinations and lockdowns and a total breakdown of society and morals where the only people to benefit will be the pharma companies.

you don`t understand the methodology

To get natural immunity, you have to catch the disease and hence be in the firing line of its effects, cytokine storm, respiratory problems etc. One small viral load may only trigger a very small amount of immunity or it might not trigger any immunity. Young people should, with their high number of T cells, develop a better immunity than someone older, when T cells have already been used up.

You need to assess risk/reward? Weigh up the consequences before preaching natural immunity, it is a complicated scientific subject

songstress60

So sick of all these restricitions. We will have to live with the virus and that's the end of it. Get your jab and now let's all learn to get back to normal. The most important thing is the economy.

Isn't that a repeat of something you've posted before?

Have you told the virus you're sick of it and you don't want to play any more?

Well said Elegran and karmalady.

MOnica I would have expected better from you.

topcat223 - and Monica - wake up! - wishful thinking (or is it denial?) simply won't get us out of this. Already, we have a major incident declared in London, with worrying staff shortages in the NHS.

How will your 'natural immunity' help if you need hospital treatment - and it's unavailable, or severely rationed?

Have a guess at who will be 'lucky' and receive treatment - and who will be denied it - and think on!

news.sky.com/story/covid-19-mayor-of-london-sadiq-khan-declares-major-incident-over-huge-surge-of-omicron-cases-12499021

I so agree

Realistically , eventually we will have to live along side this. The young won’t put up with any more lockdowns , the country and business’s cannot afford any more, we know how it’s transmitted. It will never disappear.