Come on!

Quokka - I'm sure that the many teachers among us will understand that when teaching skills, there has to be frequent repetition for the skill to be developed and embedded into a pupil's/student's abilities and unfortunately being presented with the need to return an amazon parcel once every six weeks is not a process that needs to be rehearsed and it's much easier to ask for help at the time.
Personally, in my 70s I am perfectly au fait with IT and unphased when something new confronts me. However, there's a wider implication of IT that we often forget and that is the power of surveillance upon general society by government and business. Every online purchase, every bank account movement, whereabouts noted as we purchase an online parking or theatre ticket, etc. etc. all of these things provide a record of our lives and make it very easy for the behaviour nudging we saw happening in the pandemic. And the continuation of credit cards only in many shops and restaurants rather than the acceptance of cash is another extension of this.

PinkCosmos - regarding the person who paid you by cheque, there could be good reasons why s/he doesn't want to use internet banking. My suggestion is that if you ever enter into an agreement with someone that requires them to reimburse, you should be upfront and say you don't accept cheques - cash or online banking and you'll get cash either in your hand or through the post by registered delivery.

It's not an age issue. I knew a lady of 102 who was very happy using email and talking to her family via Zoom etc. She was very intelligent and knew how to use internet technology to keep in touch with her friends and family. She was, I believe, an early adopter, so it came easily to her.
Whereas my MIL, also very intelligent, had deferred to her husband's antipathy to using computers, internet etc when they retired and found herself increasingly at a disadvantage.

I don't think you are being unreasonable Quokka. I find it irritating too. My DH (totally IT competent when it suits) is the same, and adds to the frustration by then refusing to accept the process will work - grumbling when I send a parcel back that "well that's it then, last you'll hear of that, lost the item and your money now" . This despite the fact that my returns work just fine, time and again! Grrrrr

Mentioning I was struggling to pay in a cheque using the banking app a bank staff member demonstrated. it truly is easy - once you know how.

We have several friends who refuse to use text or indeed have their phones switched on when they are at home. It infuriates me. Two are younger than us and could, they just won't, they do at least use email. The third could be your neighbour blondie, she travels into the nearest city to do any banking, refuses to use telephone banking and I know loses out in so many ways.

These days I use what I need to, I admit I am very out of touch with many newer things but do try to learn what is useful. Hope I stay that way. The family will show us if we really get stuck, I've discovered the grandchildren have far more patience than their parents and our daughter in law is the kindest, not falling around laughing when I write instructions down.

Mr C does far less than I do as I'm the family administrator, always have been, but we make sure he could do the basics if he needed to .

many years ago my son bought me a laptop and gave me one hours tuition. But I got to grips with it. Then eight years ago bought me an iPad and set it up for me. He lives a four hour journey away so doesn’t visit often. I have now bought a new iPad but can cope with that. It is my life line because I am housebound.
How do elderly people cope with just a land line phone (predicted to be scrapped) manage?

My neighbour is so not into IT that when her car broke down she took the bus home to phone and she has an apple mobile 😂 Have offered to show her stuff but she doesn’t want to know and to be fair never asks, but how she manages in this tech world without an email I don’t know, she pays mega for her bills as a result

Some people don't learn by having a process explained to them - they have to do the steps one by one. Hands on is the only way for them so if they won't tackle a laptop, a smart phone or a parking meter there's little hope.

I much prefer a cashier to self service, but I much prefer online shopping to going to the shops, so the choice is rarely on offer.

I have a phone but rarely use it. I also choose to use a cashier rather than self service,
Our local Asda has increased the self serve area to the detriment of the few cash desks that remain. It’s a way of getting rid of staff and I don’t want to be a part of it,
(Also I get confused with the self serve process.)

Norah

sharon103

I'm 68 and technology does my head in.
I have a laptop and am a whizz when it comes to buying online and internet banking.
I'm probably the only one in the country that doesn't have a mobile phone. I hate self serve. I prefer to go to a cashier to check out in shops.
It all just un-nerves me. I'm afraid I'm going to press wrong buttons and get in a mess.
What am I like!
It's all out of my comfort zone.

No. I don't have a mobile, our landline is brilliant.

That makes 2 of us then Norah.

sharon103

I'm 68 and technology does my head in.
I have a laptop and am a whizz when it comes to buying online and internet banking.
I'm probably the only one in the country that doesn't have a mobile phone. I hate self serve. I prefer to go to a cashier to check out in shops.
It all just un-nerves me. I'm afraid I'm going to press wrong buttons and get in a mess.
What am I like!
It's all out of my comfort zone.

No. I don't have a mobile, our landline is brilliant.

I'm 68 and technology does my head in.
I have a laptop and am a whizz when it comes to buying online and internet banking.
I'm probably the only one in the country that doesn't have a mobile phone. I hate self serve. I prefer to go to a cashier to check out in shops.
It all just un-nerves me. I'm afraid I'm going to press wrong buttons and get in a mess.
What am I like!
It's all out of my comfort zone.

Doodledog

I don't see it as needy to not know something, or to ask for help to do something you haven't done before. I don't mind asking young people to show me how to do things - I've spent enough of my life showing them .

When it crosses into needy territory is when people expect everyone else to adapt their behaviour, or not to embrace innovations because they don't want to.

Agreed.

However, I'm aware to my elderly-ness and prefer to never need anything we can work out (say with youtube) on our own.

I don't embrace some money wasting tech, but I find workarounds. To me that's key, I find a way to not waste others time, usually.

I don't see it as needy to not know something, or to ask for help to do something you haven't done before. I don't mind asking young people to show me how to do things - I've spent enough of my life showing them .

When it crosses into needy territory is when people expect everyone else to adapt their behaviour, or not to embrace innovations because they don't want to.

biglouis

If something unexpected happens I have a list of things I go through before calling out my techie nephew who builds and installs computers for a living.

We attempt never being needy. One-off we call our GC over to help. They seem quite pleased to say "Norah, do this that."

If something unexpected happens I have a list of things I go through before calling out my techie nephew who builds and installs computers for a living.

PinkCosmos

I have just been given a cheque from someone who doesn't do internet banking. I now have to trail into town to deposit the cheque. Not that easy when I work full time and the bank is shut at the weekend.

I am also DH's secretary!! It's funny how he finds it easy to order things for himself online but he can never work out how to return them without my 'help i.e. doing it for him!

If you have a smart phone and your banks app , you can take deposit a cheque by taking a photo of it .

People can be "needy" in odd ways. Some people need, as it were, to be carried.

As doodledog describes, there are also people who at one time would have been called Luddites because of their resistance to technological change even when it's quite easy stuff.

Shrug. Takes all sorts....

Message deleted by Gransnet. Here's a link to our Talk guidelines.

I assume if we people are here, typing, we have internet and some way to use internet. There seems some logic in that.

We have laptops, purchase new as needed. We can bank, buy food, purchase at Amazon (for example), look to Google, read news.

I'm not at all interested in making lists, spreadsheets, documents, cards, or any of many tasks. I use pen and paper well for bookkeeping (numbers for the accountant), a landline, a scanner/copier. I'm content, don't need help (late 70s) with my limited tech abilities.

We look to youtube vids if we need help.

It's a bit of a vicious circle that you have to be able to access the internet to learn how to do things online, isn't it?

There used to be classes for older people in libraries and so on - do they still exist?

If you are techie enough to access it I find Youtube has lots of videos about how to use things like parking meters, train ticket machines, petrol pumps, even paying in a cheque, etc. I'm better watching a video than trying to read instructions. Once you have done the thing a couple of times you get more confident.

I agree that it is so much easier to keep up with ever changing technology when you are working, but what I find annoying is people who expect everyone else to live in the past because they refuse to even try.

A group I'm in can't have a Facebook page to post messages and so on, as one member 'doesn't do Facebook' (it would be a private, locked group, so she wouldn't have to use it for anything else). We couldn't even have a WhatsApp group until recently as she refused to have a smartphone - everything had to be done by email. It's a fairly small group, so we can't really just do it without her, and it seems so controlling.

It's not that I think everyone should have to use the internet for everything. My MIL is in her late 90s, and has never used a computer. It would be unfair (and pointless) to expect her to learn now. She tends to deal in cash, or let her children sort things for her, which is absolutely fine at her age. But people in their 60s and 70s should make an effort, IMO. I do think that there should be free broadband for all, and that free internet access should be more readily available than it is (in the way that we used to have phone boxes for those without a phone of their own), but I think that it's not unreasonable for example, for councils to 'go digital' and banks to move online, with exceptions only for those who have a genuine reason for not being able to comply. If people aren't nudged into the 21st century we will never make progress. Communication has always moved on - we don't use telegrams any more, telephone boxes are thin on the ground, and even 'new-fangled' things like faxes are obsolete now. We all need to keep up.

Often it’s down to mindset. People think they can’t do something so they won’t even try, then they get trapped into a kind of fear thing and if there is somebody to do it for them that will be their go for option. They then become more convinced they can’t do it and impossible to show or reason with.

I worked in the Educational Technology industry for over 20 years (I was a Finance Manager) they very much encouraged all staff to learn and embrace new technologies. But that was 10 years ago and technology moves very quickly, I try very hard to keep to with everything as I don’t want to be left behind but sometimes need help and support from my son and daughter. Even my almost 3 year old granddaughter, she wanted to listen to some songs the other day using the headphones and I couldn’t get it to work - she said Nana do you have bluetooth switched on.😂
I do worry about a couple of friends who apart from being able to use a mobile phone for calls absolutely refuse to learn anything else. One friend is increasingly housebound and has had to give up her car, she can’t get to supermarket, buy new clothes, buy books, buy knitting wool, get to her bank, order repeat prescriptions, she doesn’t have a smart meter and can’t remember the last time she gave energy readings (she thinks someone should come and read them) and lots of other things. Somethings she has to pay for online and she asks me to then she gives me a cheque, argghh.
I don’t want to be like this, you can lose so much independence.