younger relatives don't do conversation

I find this with the young grandchildren, not so much with my daughters. I think they don’t know it is rude, it is just their way of life. They spend half their time texting friends who they have just spent all day at school with. Quite bizarre but then no doubt our parents thought the same about us.

Would they gave noticed you leaving?

Doodledog

Tomayto, tomato. If everyone is watching the same thing when food is ready, why leave it? Mr Dog and I often eat in front of PMQs on Wednesday afternoons, shouting at the telly. I see nothing ill-mannered about that. If either or both of the children are there, they join in. Every meal is not a dinner party, with rules and expectations, surely?

Could it possibly be that the one person who insists that phones are confiscated, the TV off and things are set up the way they like it are the ones being unreasonable?

Yes, but that is in the privacy of your own home, doing your own thing? When a third party is introduced into the equation you introduce a new dynamic. If someone visits you on the off chance that you are home, then they are invading your privacy without previous arrangement. If, however, you invite them to lunch and then continue to watch and shout at the telly, that is ill mannered. It is all about social etiquette.

Doodledog

Tomayto, tomato. If everyone is watching the same thing when food is ready, why leave it? Mr Dog and I often eat in front of PMQs on Wednesday afternoons, shouting at the telly. I see nothing ill-mannered about that. If either or both of the children are there, they join in. Every meal is not a dinner party, with rules and expectations, surely?

Could it possibly be that the one person who insists that phones are confiscated, the TV off and things are set up the way they like it are the ones being unreasonable?

Of course! We each have numerous sports, and if an important match is on during a meal - the telly may have to be on.

Tomayto, tomato. If everyone is watching the same thing when food is ready, why leave it? Mr Dog and I often eat in front of PMQs on Wednesday afternoons, shouting at the telly. I see nothing ill-mannered about that. If either or both of the children are there, they join in. Every meal is not a dinner party, with rules and expectations, surely?

Could it possibly be that the one person who insists that phones are confiscated, the TV off and things are set up the way they like it are the ones being unreasonable?

This lack of 'table manners' is nothing new. When I was first invited to Sunday Lunch at my soon to be In-laws home I was amazed to find that we were all seated on one side of the dining table in the living room, so that we could all watch the TV during the meal.

Oh, that's 100% true of mine, too, Sue . My daughter in particular. Heaven forfend that we might have lives of our own, eh?

When family and friends come for lunch, they all know, no phones allowed at the table.

My daughters also, Doodledog and one of my sons! They can be difficult to actually speak to unless they want something. Thing is, the same rules don’t apply to Dh and me. If we don’t answer their calls instantly, it’s swiftly followed up with a ‘Why aren’t you answering your phone?’ message, then another with ‘WHERE ARE YOU?’ and finally whoever is trying to get on contact will get their siblings to also message us indignantly. 🤣🤣🤣

Glorianny

No need for strict inflexible rules really. If your family have interesting and inclusive conversations most people will want to join in and will leave their phones alone. We manage to chat and interact, but phones do come out occasionally when someone says "do you remember.....?" and someone decides to check up on them. or someone produces a photo of a past family event and we all comment about how we've all changed. Phones are like anything else useful tools if they are used properly.

Yes, I think this is true for us, too. My phone is usually next to 'my' seat in the sitting room, and I don't bother to take it with me when I go to the dining room, which is where the main table is. Mr Dog's is always on the bedside table, regardless of where he happens to be (the concept of 'mobile' having passed him by) and my children's are in their pockets or bags. If they have a phone on them, I wouldn't expect them to put it in a box, or not to glance at it if it pinged; but neither would I expect them to spend the whole meal scrolling through Facebook (which they don't). We brought them up to have manners, and they can tell the difference without the need for rules.

We don’t have phones at the table. I presume DDs have the same idea as none of the DGC ever bring them into the dining room at ours or theirs.
Re iwatches, mine might ping or even ring, but I just ignore it or cancel it. I would expect anyone else to do the same

Doodledog

It's not something I have come across personally, but there was a Reddit discussion recently about it - apparently talking can prevent 'mindful' eating and lead to obesity.

I'm not saying I agree - in fact I take an entirely oppositional view, which Fleurpepper will no doubt pick apart - but was just saying that norms vary and there is no right and wrong with these things - they are expectations, not absolutes.

Not at all, why would I. A pity, truly.

This is a discussion, with a variety of opinions and realities.

But Id say that phones at the table is wrong, in my book, and that of my ACs, and even GCs. And most of our friends, all I believe.

No need for strict inflexible rules really. If your family have interesting and inclusive conversations most people will want to join in and will leave their phones alone. We manage to chat and interact, but phones do come out occasionally when someone says "do you remember.....?" and someone decides to check up on them. or someone produces a photo of a past family event and we all comment about how we've all changed. Phones are like anything else useful tools if they are used properly.

It's not something I have come across personally, but there was a Reddit discussion recently about it - apparently talking can prevent 'mindful' eating and lead to obesity.

I'm not saying I agree - in fact I take an entirely oppositional view, which Fleurpepper will no doubt pick apart - but was just saying that norms vary and there is no right and wrong with these things - they are expectations, not absolutes.

This "not talking at the table" sounds like a new thing as I remember in historical novels and articles on etiquette in "society" stipulating that you converse with the person on your left until the next course is brought, then you switch to your neighbour on your right. Not conversing was not an option!

Calendargirl

When I was young, the tv was always turned off when we had visitors.

My parents felt it was unacceptable if you visited people and they kept their telly on. Very rude.

Pre empting the mobile debate maybe.

That's a similar social dilemma, Calendargirl. Mine were the same, and I agree - I would always turn off the TV when people called, but I don't encourage 'droppers in', which I see as rude. My mum believes in being 'visitor ready' at all times, and wouldn't dream of ignoring a knock at the door.

Should it be seen as rude for a visitor to intrude on your TV viewing, or for you to continue watching? There is no right answer, really, but I think that these days people value their time in their own homes to do as they please - maybe because people often work long hours outside of the home on top of the chores when they get in.

These days there is always catch up or on demand, but I remember being about 15 minutes from the end of Jagged Edge, and on the edge of my seat to find out whether he was the killer or not, and my MIL dropped in to deliver something. It was before VCRs, and I knew it could be ages before there would be another chance to see the film. My manners got the better of me, so I turned it off, and as soon as she left rang my sister to find out the end - not the same as being able to see it myself though .

Who these days doesn't allow talking at the table?

Not me.

When I was young, the tv was always turned off when we had visitors.

My parents felt it was unacceptable if you visited people and they kept their telly on. Very rude.

Pre empting the mobile debate maybe.

I have to spend a lot of time sitting in my chair looking out of my window. Every passerby is looking at their phone whilst just walking, walking a dog or pushing a pram. A cyclist went by the other day on her phone.
I don’t have a mobile because I am not mobile! I have no use for one..

Who these days doesn't allow talking at the table?

Back to the OP and some of the other sad stories told here. The OP was INVITED then totally ignored by hosts who spent all the time on phone. Is that really acceptable?

Or elderly parent invited for lunch, and totally ignored, etc.

Totally out of order.

SueDonim

Doodledog said With the advent of mobiles, people could choose when to answer, as they could see who the caller was and ring back when it was more convenient for them.

What if, when the call recipient rings back, it’s then not convenient for the original caller to answer? I can imagine this going back and forth like a game of ping pong for weeks.

Well yes . Have you been trying to get in touch with my daughter?

Most of my friends now text first to ask if it's a good time to chat. My mum doesn't even stop to ask if it's convenient, but launches into what she wants to say, so you'd have to cut her off mid flow to point out that you are up to the elbows in flour or whatever you're doing. Young people don't really 'do' chatting on the phone, except to their parents, apparently.

These things do have fashions, and people aren't meaning offence when they are on a different page from us - it'a all 'progress' (ducks ).

Doodledog said With the advent of mobiles, people could choose when to answer, as they could see who the caller was and ring back when it was more convenient for them.

What if, when the call recipient rings back, it’s then not convenient for the original caller to answer? I can imagine this going back and forth like a game of ping pong for weeks.

Fleurpepper

Did you use to read at the dinner table when you didn't have visitors?

Why do you ask? You seem to be trying to argue for argument's sake. I was talking about when visitors came for the afternoon, not at the table.

I think that sounds fine, Norah. I can't say I've felt the need to ask, to be honest, but if someone at the table were constantly on their phone I wouldn't like it. At the table is different, as someone (me, usually!) has made an effort to cook something, and it is a social time in many houses. Others don't allow talking at the table, though, so would find our conversational meals rude - what was it my granny used to say? People are strange. Apart from you and me that is - and I'm not sure about you yet .

Do those who refuse to have phones at the table insist on people taking off smart watches too? When my son first got one it was always pinging and vibrating until he got the settings straight. I don't know - when I am out, or have made an effort to be with someone, I do feel narked when they appear to give more importance to someone on the end of a phone than to me, but I'm not sure I can insist on being their top priority all the time.

I don't know for others, but for us meals are the only time we ask 'please devices turned off'. Small polite ask, not much really out of a day. People are free to leave the table, not interrupt by their devices and call or whatever it is people must do all the time on mobiles.

Our daughters don't eye roll this polite request. They are quick to eyeroll Mum and Dad whenever they are annoyed.

I gather the request - 1/2 hour away from devices - is fine.

Did you use to read at the dinner table when you didn't have visitors?