Should we stand up for ourselves? Family feud

Sara1954 for the win

The lies reflect on the liar
If anybody knows your older dil and son, they will know is a bunch of bullshit and unnecessary family drama

Same for the lies for OP from young dil, it is all gossip

When a liar doesn't get the reaction or get the engagement they want, they move on or escalate.

Nothing OP or older couple can do about the reaction of other people.

Unfortunately, OP has already sold her soul to the devil and it will be hard to repair that with the older couple

That's the issue now, not the lies

As I said before, I think the older couple will eventually walk away, I don’t know why they haven’t done so already.
You will then have your grandchildren, but you’ll also be left with their hugely dis functional parents, who may possibly split up at some point anyway, and then where will you be?
I think you are going to have to act fast to rescue your relationship with the older couple, and eat lots of humble pie.

One thing just occurred.

Older DiL has no children. Whether she has chosen it or not, it cant be easy for her to know that younger DiL is in a sense weaponising this..

I still advise keeping out, but giving DiL every reassurance that what's said on social media about what you have said done is not true when she asks/remarks.

If she demands you intervene say its too much to ask for you to start a family feud, you love both your children but cannot "take sides".

But I wouldn't do it in writing, frankly No one is free of the temptation to them use that.

A very difficult situation but I don’t see how you can stay out of it. By saying or posting lies about you, the fiancée has already involved you. And as others have already said, by staying silent you are taking the side of the fiancée.

Men are weak when it comes to things like this.. those sons need to face up to each other .. the four of them need to thrash it out. There’s a chance it may resolve things if truths are spoken and grievances aired instead of it all festering in the back ground. . As for weaponising the children , there’s little you can do about that and it will only be temporary .. ( speaks from experience )

You are being rather cowardly and feeding into the youngest dil’s drama, by not doing anything you are tacitly agreeing with you which add the your older dil’s distress, she has put up with a lot of nasty and unfounded maliciousness for a long time it seems without any support from you which is wrong.
A quiet word with the younger one just to ask her to leave you out of it saying you don’t want to take sides should be your course of action, your conviction that she will curtail your access to your grandchildren really just proves what a nasty , vindictive person she is, youth is not a defence nor is jealousy.
If I was your older dil’s I would be rather angry with you too but then I would be putting the horrible little madam in her place as she thoroughly deserves although you are currently enabling her behaviour

I do see your point, Margie19, but honestly I see your elder DIL's too.

From her point of view, by your refusal to defend yourself against your younger son's partner's untrue allegations, you are tactictly, at least to those who read them on social media, admitting that she is right!

You are also in the eyes of your elder DIL refusing to defend her from these unkind remarks that are untrue, and then to compound the matter, you tell her that speaking out to the unreasonable young woman who is the mother of your grandchildren, you risk no longer being allowed to see said children.

Did it not strike you that this remark is extremely hurtful to a woman who has decided not to have children? A right slap in the face, in fact? You have, again in her eyes, told her that she means less to you than her SIL because she had not given you the grandchildren you so deeply desired.

Presumably, you never meant the remark to be taken in this way - but the world is full of those who tell childless women that they are selfish and egoistic for not bringing children into the world.

Frankly, I think to keep a reasonable relationship with your elder son and his wife, somebody is going to have to say something to the other couple.

It might come better from your elder son, or it might come better from you - I cannot say, not knowing your family.

If you decide to talk to the mother of your grandchildren, ask her nicely what has made her feel the way she does, and why she is saying these things about her SIL and about your relationship to your son's wife. Don't accuse her of lying, obviously, ask for her point of view. Tell her frankly that the situation distresses you, as you feel it makes it impossible for you to invite both your sons with spouses and children at the same time.

If she either won't discuss the matter with you, or sticks to her guns, take the matter up with your son, asking him if he could possibly get his partner to see that nothing of what she is going around saying is actually how you feel, and it is hurting both you and his SIL.

I am sadly afraid that if you try to discuss this with your son's partner, it might well blow up in your face, but if you don't your elder son and his wife are very likely to wash their hands of you.

If you feel that speaking out will do no good, then the only alternative I can see is to tell each couple that you will always be pleased to see them, but will they please phone in advance, as you have no intention of inviting either couple if the other brother and DIL are coming. That way you are signalling that you have been forced to take the situation seriously, and as you intend to continue seeing both your sons, there is no alternative you can see than this plan.

First of all I’d go for a coffee or afternoon tea withDIL no,1, and tell her you have no idea why DDILno.2is lying (yes lying) about what you have said. Reassure her that you love her very much and it hurts you too that DILno.2 seems to be trying to drive a wedge between you. Then if social media is the weapon, DIL no1 should block DILno.2. She can to that to DILno2 who will not know that her vicious comments are not reaching her intended target.If you see DIL no2 making untrue statements you need to ask her why she feels the need to make up hurtful comments, because that does upset you. If she is so snide as to put nasty comments on social media maybe you should block her too. People who really know you will not be swayed. I think it is up to DS1 to say to DS2 that his fiancees comments are upsetting his wife. That way you are not involved in the brothers’ disagreements. As for DILno.2 I doubt very much that she is a lovely girl if she’s being so nasty and putting you in fear of not seeing your grandchildren.

Wishing you luck Nannashirlz.

I feel your pain I’ve also been in a similar issue with my my oldest son wife my daughter inlaw she made up a load of lies about me and I spoke to my son because it was all lies and he knew there were but it was down to jealousy i didn’t visit their house for a nearly a year he would visit mine with my granddaughter but we sat down and had a chat and clear the air now she is fine. We chat etc it’s not a 100 percent perfect but if’s liveable I see my granddaughters at their house and sleep over to babysit but I couldn’t allow her to make up lies about me and she drag me into something I had to defend myself and if you don’t say anything to her then she could get worse. I get on brilliantly with my other daughter inlaw but she isn’t as forgiving as me but we all going to a family party in June so wish me luck lol but you know what they say you choose your friends but not your family

You will always be in this position while you give your power away - your younger son's fiancee is manipulating and controlling you and it is awful, and if she gets her own way once she will probably use the threat of stopping you seeing the grandchildren to get her own way in other circumstances. She sounds like a monster and I do not believe she can be a good mum if she would stop her children seeing their grandparents for such selfish reasons. She is lying about you - I presume these lies are also on social media? Personally I could not put up with this at any price and whatever it cost me emotionally I could not have the threat of losing my grandchildren held over my head like this. I would have to speak my truth and let the chips fall where they may, and find other concerns to light up my life, apart from my grandchildren. But I do feel for you. It sounds absolutely agonising. By all means go along with the posters who say 'keep out of it' - I 'get' that, but I wonder if it will be possible and if your younger son's fiancee will not eventually demand that you stop seeing your other daughter in law. Much love to you.

The spat between the two women isn't any of your business, but the remark about you and your husband - "telling elder son’s wife that we hate her. " - is your business.
I think I'd be asking the fiancée WHY she thinks you hate your DIL and whatever possessed her to relay this to her, either to her face, if you have the courage, or through social media.
She won't stop you seeing the Gkids.

MissElly, margie has said in her OP regarding not being allowed to see GC that "this is a threat that has been made to us before".

Horrible way to behave, holding your parents/p's.i.l. to ransom and using your children to do so.

Oh dear, I’ve read all the replies and it seems almost a 50/50 between doing something or doing nothing.
For what it’s worth, here’s my brutally honest opinion:

You have a damaged younger son who has unfortunately found himself an even more damaged fiancée . They do not sound like nice people and seem to have little respect for you. In contrast your older son and his wife sound lovely. In your final years, who would you trust to have your best interests at heart? Certainly not the younger ones.

The waters are muddied by the inclusion of much-loved grandchildren but already they have been used as a stick to beat you with. Chances are that this would be an ongoing threat until they reach their independence years.

As hard as it is for you, I would call the bluff of the younger son and fiancée and tell them that behaviour is upsetting, unfair and unacceptable. If they cut you off from the grandchildren, point out that the grandchildren would be just as upset as you (you did say that the fiancée was a good mother so perhaps this would resonate with her). Also if you see them multiple times a week you must be giving a lot of support that they would then lose by banning you from them.

Do prepare for the worst though, at least initially, and find things to do that replace the time that you would normally
spend with grandchildren, so that you are not moping around, thinking about them.

Regarding the suggestions about relationship therapy; at first I thought that this was a good idea, but then I changed my mind as this could just feed into the drama on which the younger son
and fiancée seem to thrive.

Wishing you the very best of luck with this unpleasant situation.

I wd get your older dil to delete post and remove younger dil from whatever forum/ sites they are on together and your husband has already told her accusations about you both not true and then leave it and if your younger dil says things to you, which I doubt, you can just say not true and you don’t want to discuss then it will be fine as you said they are rarely if ever in touch

I have an old friend whose two children have not seen or spoken to each other fir over 20 years. She sees them both separately but as she ages and there is no movement from her children the next time they see each other will be at their mothers funeral. It’s all so very sad, and quite frankly the reason the older cut off the younger was so minor it was quite unnecessary .
It hurts my friend very much so it’s not mentioned any more.

I wouldn’t be able to keep out of this situation.
The fiancée sounds like a jealous young mother full of envy. Understandably she wants more for her children but she chose your son. Your grandchildren mean a lot to you and you to them. Why would a loving mother threaten to deprive them of that contact to hurt you?you can’t win but keeping quiet is seeming to your son’s wife as though you are siding with the fiancée. Don’t be surprised if she cuts off contact with you. She is very hurt at your seeming denial.

I'm so sad for you what an awful situation to be in like others I would try and stay out of it and let them sort it out however it does sound like the younger one is jealous and manipulative I would have to speak to her with regards to telling lies about you don't be fooled by thinking it will just blow over

Your younger son’s partner might feel very insecure which could come across as jealousy. Feeling that the other couple have done better, have more, have an enviable life style etc, maybe she’s afraid you think more of them than her. I’m not defending her, it’s hurtful and childish but attacking her will prove to her that she is right. I grew up with a very insecure mother who belittled other women who she actually felt inferior to either intellectually or financially. Would you consider family counselling. If you and your husband go a good councillor would be able to help you both with coping strategies for yourselves and maybe at a later stage help the others in your family. Being effectively held hostage by fear of losing your grandchildren is an awful way to live. Also, unless I’m wrong, it is only that you think this this would happen, it hasn’t been threatened. If you fear that this woman would do this, maybe subconsciously she doesn’t really feel part of the family. I can’t imagine I would have been totally relaxed with my in laws if in the back of their minds they were so worried about me hurting them like that. I would hasten slowly, as they say, and get professional, unbiased advice from someone with experience and objectivity. Good luck!

Yes also you could try what Pigsmayfly suggests first- it is a good idea and lays out EXACTLY to both sides how it really is- from yourselves, not as suggested by one or other of the couples- if it doesnt work then move on to stage 2 as i suggested and tell BOTH women to block each other on social media- why would they want to even see any of the stuff either of them posts if its upsetting to them both? Good luck.

I had this for many years, with my two girls, in very similar situations. I spent many years not seeing one set of grandchildren or the other any one time.
When my husband died it got worst and he was not there to have my back. It is emotionally exhausting and heart breaking. (I had a break down over it all, and had to have a mental health team support me) In the end with their help, I learned to step back ( I never got involved before but used to be dragged in. ) I made it very clear that I do not speak about either girl negatively and if I sent a text its always sent to both no matter what it is about. I also set up a family what’s app chat group so any comments could be seen by all. If anyone text me I add it to the group.
It easy to point the finger and say it’s the younger one but it’s often a lot more complex than that, and in these situations, there is often fault on both sides, ok not always in equal proportions but rarely have I come across and family where it’s just one sided. If there is any kind of favouritism in any way no matter how small that will be picked up on. Indeed, I don’t understand your comment " I definitely struggle, with him, having to fully support his fiancée and the two DC.“ (Quote ) Why do you need to get him to support his wife? That in itself might cause resentfulness. I found that not getting involved means just that. I now have a relationship with both of them but I keep it all very transparent and if anything does get said I just say "oh she hasn’t said that to me she speaks well of you" or "if you think I said that you don’t know me very well I don’t speak badly about anyone let alone people I love", I wont let it go any further.
I wish you well

You really are piggy in the middle with this and have my sympathy.
If it was me and I had personally seen/heard comments saying I hated my dil then I would have to say something. Not fair to you (who else has seen these comments and is judging you because of them) and definitely unfair to dil.
I would meet with DS2 and fiance and emphasise you don't want to take sides and you most certainly don't want to fall out with them BUT any dispute is between fiance and dil and you have been brought into this by some of the statements made. Ask them not to include you in any comments made about dil in the future and say again you really don't want to fall out with them because you enjoy having the whole of the family in your lives.
It may be a bit of a gamble re the grands but I would have to draw the line . You say you help them a lot with the grandchildren so perhaps what's been said in the past were just empty threats, they maybe need you more than they might admit.
Very difficult situation but basically you're feeling 'blackmailed' into not sticking up for what you know is right.

It is always a complete mystery to me how people know so much detail about the lives of their adult children!
I would just make sure that your DiL knows you love her and would never say these sort of things behind her back (surely she knows what the fiancee is like?)
Otherwise I would stay out of it.

If the lies have been posted on social media, it’s all out there in the public domaine. Someone will be happy to let you know about this so I don’t see how you can avoid saying something. Why do you love this daughter-in-law? She sounds like a piece of work! Fancy putting her nasty thoughts into words on social media! She’s asking for trouble. She would have to balance very carefully, how much help you provide to her family before she threatens to cut you off from your grandchildren - she will always be able to blackmail you like this, so be prepared for a lifetime of it.

I am not going to say what you "should do" What I will say is don't kid yourself that your relationship with your grandchildren will be safe provided you keep quiet about what their mother is doing. Believe me that ship HAS sailed. the other thing that I think is that by doing nothing, you risk losing not one son but two. If I was your older son I wouldn't think much of a mother who was being used to hurt his wife and didn't do anything about it.