Swimming in Kinder Reservoir

Thank you, FannyCornforth

The walls have signs The walls have signs saying deep, cold water do not swim. The messages are repeated on the gate forbidding people to swim because of the danger.

I'm not personally against any of this. I thought I had made that clear by mentioning educating people on the dangers, which all those efforts you mentioned are attempting to do.

Your last post sems to suggest that making rules, putting up notices about the dangers, telling people not to do something – forbidding them even – doesn't work for people who are determined to do whatever it is.

So the next question is What Next? How can people be forced to obey? I don't believe that problem has ever or will ever be solved even where there is total oppression.

Human nature 🤷🏻‍♀️

That’s funny. Near DD1 there’s a reservoir with a really high wall all the way round and chained gates at the one entrance. The walls have signs The walls have signs saying deep, cold water do not swim. The messages are repeated on the gate forbidding people to swim because of the danger. Some people obviously think the ban can be ignored , because tree trunks have been piled up in several places to enable people to get over the wall.
But why not? Inside the wall that’s a lovely grassy area around the pool and the water looks inviting.

I think people need educating about the dangers of cold water swimming and plunging. M0nica seems to think that highly visible warnings are already in place for many sites.

One of my DDs lives in the Derbyshire High Peak area. I seem to remember warning notices near open water but I'll check with her and retract if she tells me otherwise.

Thanks, MG. Yes, I understood that you support banning of dangerous things. I would agree as far as dangerous things that recklessly harm others or our environment but there are a lot of activities that are risky to individuals, and even sometimes to rescue services (I'm thinking of mountaineering/climbing in particular as an example) which I don't think should be banned because I think people's freedom matters even when it sometimes causes, unintentionally, danger to others. Mountain Rescue teams I've spoken to do not want mountaineering and climbing to be banned.

I don't know all the details of the KR ban on swimming in that reservoir but I'm not convinced banning swimming there for everyone is necessary. The protestors mentioned upthread would seem to agree with that or they wouldn't be protesting.

In general I think there is too much banning and too much naked authoritarianism in society at the moment.

Baggs

Mollygo
Baggs, who has said all wild water swimming should be banned?
Bluebelle’s post at 0600 yesterday seems to be saying it has been banned at Kinder Reservoir. I thought that’s what the thread was about.
My post was because swimming at Kinder Reservoir was banned, and people had decided that it was a good idea to ignore the ban.
Even I, as the OP, didn’t suggest all wild water swimming should be banned.

I asked if it was a good idea to demonstrate publicly that it’s OK to ignore a ban if it doesn’t suit you, setting an example that others will happily use as an excuse to copy.
That applies to anything in life, not just wild water swimming, but e.g. ignoring the ban on using disposable barbecues on dry moorland.

The OP also talks about banning wild swimming at KR. That’s the banning I was talking about too.

Mollygo

Baggs, who has said all wild water swimming should be banned?

Bluebelle’s post at 0600 yesterday seems to be saying it has been banned at Kinder Reservoir. I thought that’s what the thread was about.

So many of our rivers and sees areas are polluted with sewage and industrial farm waste that they aren’t suitable for swimming anyway. I’m with the wild swimmers they should be allowed access. I doubt if any of those” trespassers” will get into difficulties .

Baggs, who has said all wild water swimming should be banned?

M0nica

The idiots that drown are generally young men who in the height of summer leap into ponds, rivers, reservoirs and gravel pits to cool off. Most of the places they go they will never have seen wild swimmers, let alone used their presence to reassure themsleves that what they are doing is safe.

These area are usually covered with notices warning potential bathers of the dangers and those that drown get more publicity than wild swimmers ever do.

Two entirely seperate activities, almost entirely mutually exclusive.

Exactly.

BlueBelle

Too much ‘safetism’ ? when kids and teens die in these places!!
Wow
No Baggs I thoroughly disagree many reservoirs are fine for swimming in this one has been deemed not safe, so follow the rules for other less qualified people to follow you

But how would kids and teens know that anyone was swimming in Kinder Reser unless a big fuss was being made about it it was being publicised?

And what kids, including most teens, would be going to Kinder Reser without responsible adults?

The idiots that drown are generally young men who in the height of summer leap into ponds, rivers, reservoirs and gravel pits to cool off. Most of the places they go they will never have seen wild swimmers, let alone used their presence to reassure themsleves that what they are doing is safe.

These area are usually covered with notices warning potential bathers of the dangers and those that drown get more publicity than wild swimmers ever do.

Two entirely seperate activities, almost entirely mutually exclusive.

Too much ‘safetism’ ? when kids and teens die in these places!!
Wow
No Baggs I thoroughly disagree many reservoirs are fine for swimming in this one has been deemed not safe, so follow the rules for other less qualified people to follow you

Good point about setting an example, bluebelle, but how many wild swimmers or plungers at Kinder Reser publcise their activites and how many people hang around in such isolated places waiting to spot anyone?

I think there's something about the importance of the original Kinder Trespass protest here that is probably pushing the current protest, as glorianny suggests. That matters.

Plus – wild guessing here – perhaps it's about people feeling there is too much safetyism nowadays and they need to fight it back.

“Wild” swimming was what we used to do as kids in the Ettrick as the nearest swimming baths were 5 miles and a bus ride away.
Too cold for me now, I get enough bracing water therapy when I jump into the shower and realise the boiler isn’t working. 🥶🥶🥶

It is brilliant Baggs I do it in the sea but the group I go with do not go in if the notices go up for safety or pollution as sometimes happens
Surely this is about following safety rules and setting an example not whether it’s exhilarating or beneficial

Good posts by Glorianny too.

I can't help thinking also of Scandinavian practices of plunging into absolutely icy waters. Apparently (I'm told!) it has healthful benefits. Ditto cold water swimming.

Regular wild swimmers know better than to swim alone in isolated places, that is left to the kind of idiots who drown
Harsh Monica the idiots as you put it, see the wild swimmers in there and presume it’s ok for them too.

Anyway it’s not about if it’s ok for good swimmers or not it’s about following rules and not breaking rules that have clearly been put in position for a valid reason You can’t have rules for one and not for others that’s nonsense

If it says danger do not swim here then you darn well don’t swim there

It's not just young people going into deep, cold water unprepared. Adults who don't understand the problems do it too, and die too.

As M0nica argues, awful though it is, is not a reason to ban everyone, including the people who prepare well and swim in cold water regularly.

A better response would be to educate people about the dangers. And, yes, I realise that's not as easy is banning. I don't swim in open water – I'd solidfy in seconds – but I don't support all out banning.

We have wild swimmers near us swimming in the rivers when the fish are spawning, they’ve been asked not to, but carry on.

We have wild swimming on the sea front and other places near us.
I don’t do it, but I do sometimes go and watch, or in the case of a member of staff I mentioned earlier, take her and have coffee with her later. It’s true there is always equipment to deal with anyone getting into difficulties when she goes.
My question was to do with ignoring rules and setting examples. She wouldn’t ignore the rules and attend this particular event because it sets a bad example and (if she knew about GN, which I doubt) she’d know the scathing remarks she’d get for being a teacher and breaking the rules if she was spotted.

The whole point of wild swimming means that you regularly swim in really cold water, so the temperature of the water in reservoirs, will be familiar to such swimmers.

Regular wild swimmers know better than to swim alone in isolated places, that is left to the kind of idiots who drown.

Properly conducted wild swims are done in groups with strict rules about preparation on site and what your do afterwards and someone on the bank watchng those swimming.

I know nothing about this particular incident, and, to be honest, I am not much interested, I am just concerned about the ignorance about how regular wild swimmers always make sure that they swim safely. the OP refers to all the young people drowning by indiscriminatingly leaping into reservoirs - usually to keep cool in summer. When did you last hear of a wild swimmer drowning?

nanna8

Should people swim in a water storage reservoir anyway? I wouldn’t want to drink their germs.

The cleaning up of the water comes after the reservoir, nanna8. What do you think the fish, otters, ducks etc are doing in the water of a reservoir? I bet they don't nip out and have a quick pee on the bank!