To think that London, or anywhere else for that matter, does not belong to any one demographic

Skye17

This is a quote from the man concerned, Gideon Falter, in the Times.

//Someone said to me recently, is it really the end of the world if Jews just have to stay out of central London for a few months on weekends? Yes. It is the end of a world that has existed since the Battle of Cable Street in 1936, when British Jews and their allies saw off the British Union of Fascists, and ever since we have been able to live and thrive as equals in this city.

If we just accept that we are no longer welcome on the streets of London, it is the end of that world.//

apple.news/Ae1HxY_GfS7CRmcMleAZspg

How right he is.

Yes, he is.

I mentioned the Battle of Cable Street.

Are we back in the 1930s?

Wyllow3

I'm glad the words of the policeman were highlighted - brought out important issues - and I'm glad

- just as through time we have heard things said against groups Iam64 mentions in the past that wouldn't now.

But to demand to walk through a crowd in this demonstration?

- the march was made up of different groups of people including Jewish people and peaceful interfaith groups and pro Palestinians who are against the particular regime in Israel not Jewish people as a whole.
No doubt, some anti semitic too.

Going by what Gideon Falter says in the Times article, he didn’t demand to walk through a crowd. He didn’t demand anything. He wasn’t even trying to make a point. He went for a walk after a service, as he does most Saturdays, with five other people. They tried to cross the road ahead of the march, but the police stopped them.

As a result, after a few minutes the crowd grew thicker and they had to stand there while people stopped and abused them, calling them ‘scum’, and no one said anything about it.

As most people have smartphones these days, it’s not at all surprising that one of his friends was able to video what happened.

If GF had been making a point about no-go areas, that would have been a perfectly valid point. But he wasn’t even doing that.

We were out to dinner with our friends last night, they are Jewish.

They and their family no longer go into London on a weekend…

Germanshepherdsmum

In which case, MissA, should the marchers have been there?

Annie, you know why he wanted to walk through the crowd- and it wasn’t to get to the other side of the road. Have you read my link to what his organisation does? I think not.

What on earth is wrong with a charity campaigning against antisemitism? If only there was no need for such a thing.

Thanks Skye17.

Very worrying GrannyGravy.

My friend and neighbour does not look ^overtly Jewish* and thankfully we live in a quiet, tolerant area. However, one of her DC lives in London and I know she worries about him.

Skye17

Germanshepherdsmum

In which case, MissA, should the marchers have been there?

Annie, you know why he wanted to walk through the crowd- and it wasn’t to get to the other side of the road. Have you read my link to what his organisation does? I think not.

What on earth is wrong with a charity campaigning against antisemitism? If only there was no need for such a thing.

Quite!

It's not easy being Jewish at the moment.

I'm so glad my parents aren't here to see this

Callistemon21 I think we are going back to the 1930s when it comes to antisemitism. And not just here but across Europe.

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Antisemitism_in_Europe

It's really depressing, Skye17

I'm not Jewish, although some of my ancestors were.
At the moment I'm reading a novel about Jewish sisters who escaped from the Pale of Settlement but still encountered anti-semitism.

I do not believe he wanted to walk into the crowd, he would
need to be very ill
I am reading book and articles by Lily Ebert, she survived the
holocaust, her mother , brother and sister died , 100 years of
age she still speaks of the dangers of hatred, her great, grandson with her,

Louella12

It's not easy being Jewish at the moment.

I'm so glad my parents aren't here to see this

That’s so sad to hear.

Skye17

Callistemon21 I think we are going back to the 1930s when it comes to antisemitism. And not just here but across Europe.

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Antisemitism_in_Europe

Yes - and traditional home grown

www.theguardian.com/politics/2020/jun/28/jewish-groups-and-mps-condemn-nigel-farage-for-antisemitic-dog-whistles

Anniebach

I do not believe he wanted to walk into the crowd, he would
need to be very ill
I am reading book and articles by Lily Ebert, she survived the
holocaust, her mother , brother and sister died , 100 years of
age she still speaks of the dangers of hatred, her great, grandson with her,

Annie, I have already posted a link from his organisation’s website - they film undercover within marches trying to find evidence of antisemitism. Why invite it in this way? It is deliberate provocation, with the hope of suffering and filming antisemitic abuse from pro-Palestine marchers.

Anti hunt groups film undercover, so do many organisations, eg activists who film the awful cruelty to animals in some large pig or chicken ‘farms’
Surely that’s their legitimate right.
I see nothing wrong in what Gideon Falter and the charity aim to do, expose anti semitism.

I agree, provided he and his charity don’t try to trigger antisemitic abuse in order to film and publicise it. We know it happens - why try to provoke it?

I said it up thread and I'll say it again, there are groups such as JustStopOil that are massively provoking, they hold up essential services such as ambulances. The police have even been known to ask them if they're comfortable sitting in the road "do you need anything" what a crazy world we live in contrasting that with a private citizen not breaking any laws and being threatened with arrest. Given the blatant level of anti semetism that has resurged as a result of current events, I'd say any covert actions on his part are justified and this latest debacle has proved his point.

GSM - are the frequent chants of From the River etc not anti semitic, or if not anti semitic, is it provocative.
The size and frequency of the marches and associated chants /banners, seem to have prevented the Met from arresting anyone or demanding the organisers insist anti semitic posters and chants won’t be tolerated

I have said I do not believe he wanted to enter that crowd , he would need to be suicidal.
I campaigned against fox hunting, puppy farms,and didn’t have mobile phones, wish we had.

A Jew is provoking anti semitism ? Dear God anti semitism led to the Holocaust

If there is any antisemitism in the crowd (or anywhere else) then the offenders who are engaged in antisemitic behaviour should be the ones arrested. Frequently during these marches antisemitics appear to have been ignored, as in the case of the placard displayed with a swastika, and during the incident last weekend when marchers were jeering at Gideon Falter, and were calling him scum and nazi. In fact, I’ve seen placards with swastika on television news, and other placards which were vile and antisemitic. They have been ignored by police. As in the case of the Jewish reporter (from America apparently) who asked a policeman about the swastika and he replied that swastikas have to be taken in context. That exchange was filmed too.

It’s been reported that when Gideon Falter left the area last week, he was followed by police in order to be sure he left.

Who is the criminal? Why were antisemitic insults allowed to be shouted at Gideon Falter, and ignored by police? Why was he followed by police when he left the scene? Why are swastikas allowed to be openly displayed? Who is antisemitic, the police or/and the crowd? Both?

I am pleased to see that Chris Philp, the policing minister has summoned Mark Rowley to a meeting to discuss the matter.
"No-one should be told their religion is provocative, nor an innocent person threatened with arrest solely because of someone else's anticipated unreasonable reaction." (my italics .)
To say that filming undercover to find evidence of anti-semitism is deliberate provocation is absurd. As is saying that this obviously Jewish man and his friends should not wish to cross the road to get to the other side, through the marchers
The obvious conclusion is that a protest march is allowed to dominate the street, and Jewish people in particular should stay away because their lawful presence is deemed inflammatory.
Shameful.

Germanshepherdsmum

Anniebach

I do not believe he wanted to walk into the crowd, he would
need to be very ill
I am reading book and articles by Lily Ebert, she survived the
holocaust, her mother , brother and sister died , 100 years of
age she still speaks of the dangers of hatred, her great, grandson with her,

Annie, I have already posted a link from his organisation’s website - they film undercover within marches trying to find evidence of antisemitism. Why invite it in this way? It is deliberate provocation, with the hope of suffering and filming antisemitic abuse from pro-Palestine marchers.

they film undercover within marches trying to find evidence of antisemitism. Why invite it in this way? It is deliberate provocation, with the hope of suffering and filming antisemitic abuse from pro-Palestine marchers

This is turning it on its head!

If there were no anti-semitic slogans, chants and hatred being carried out on the streets of this country there would be no need to film the evidence.

Protests against a war are one thing but the chanting, the hatred and overt anti-semitism of these marchers is what is provocative, not the people it is aimed at who are trying to film evidence of it.

The fact that ypthis is happening on the streets f Britain is shameful.

mayor of London has confidence in the head of the Met,
he would wouldn’t he.
I have been reading about Gideon Falter, have much respect for him

GSM

I agree, provided he and his charity don’t try to trigger antisemitic abuse in order to film and publicise it. We know it happens - why try to provoke it?

Sorry but that’s nonsense. You can’t trigger anti semitism if it isn’t already there. If the marchers aren’t already anti Jew, then he won’t trigger them by walking through.

I know if my late parents and especially my grandparents were alive they’d be extremely triggered by all of this.

Anti semitism can be caused by a Jew wearing a kippah ,he doesn’t need to speak just walk along a pavement and he is
called scum

As tickingbird says, it is already there, it isn’t caused by what someone wears - but it can so easily tip into violence. As has already been said on here, antisemitism is evident amongst some of the marchers - why put yourself in danger? Could he not have just filmed their behaviour from the pavement?