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AIBU

To think that London, or anywhere else for that matter, does not belong to any one demographic

(829 Posts)
TerriBull Fri 19-Apr-24 10:46:31

An openly Jewish man wearing a skull cap was trying to cross the road where a pro Palestine march was taking place. He was stopped by a Met Officer who threatened to arrest the man for breaching the peace because of his openly Jewish appearance. He was merely trying to cross the road. Yes tensions run high amongst these demonstrations, but this person is a citizen going about their daily life. Why should the onus be on him to disappear, surely that onus should be on the demonstrators not to target individuals to take out any grievances. Possibly the Officer was trying to head off any clashes, but I think there is something worryingly wrong and discriminatory in telling a demographic, any demographic, they are not free to move about on the streets of their own country.

Your thoughts on the matter.

Germanshepherdsmum Mon 22-Apr-24 17:48:21

eazybee

^Of course not, but it’s a matter of how you go about it. of anyone who tries to deceive and thereby lose others their jobs Many were deceived until the full picture emerged with the Sky video. Some still refuse to see him for what he is. And that is not an antisemitic statement - I would say the same of anyone who tries to deceive and thereby lose others their jobs, whatever the person’s faith, race or cause. He has shown himself to lack integrity.^
There is an awful amount of supposition in this statement and I do not agree with it.

anyone who tries to deceive and thereby lose others their jobs'
Whose jobs?
Many were deceived until the full picture emerged with the Sky video. Some still refuse to see him for what he is.
Which is, precisely?
He behaved in an orderly and respectful manner.
The protesters did not.
The policemen were civil but not particularly polite, in fact, hectoring on occasion.

I beg to differ.

The jobs of the policeman involved, and the Met Commissioner, are threatened.

See the Sky video and transcription of the verbal exchange for the full picture.

He behaved in neither nor a respectful manner,

Indeed the protesters didn’t.

The police were patient and polite. They did their job, which was to keep him, his entourage and other members of the public safe. Again, the Sky video gives the full picture, GF’s does not, and we can see from the Sky video that his was carefully edited to give a misleading picture. Now why wouldn’t he have disseminated all the footage captured by his cameraman?

TerriBull Mon 22-Apr-24 18:01:49

Germanshepherdsmum

TerriBull

Not you GSM, but I saw one post earlier, I think it's been deleted now, the poster said something like "The Jew was in the wrong" to me that sounded as if it had come out of 1930s Nazi Germany referring to a person as "The Jew" and then the poster went on in this vein, "if that makes me an anti semite so be it" not verbatim because I can't remember the exact wording, but yes I rather think they described themselves accurately there.

I saw that post and entirely agreed as regards who was ‘in the wrong’. Maybe clumsy wording, as with the policeman, but the sentiment and lack of antisemitism was clear to me. Is it now unacceptable to refer to someone as ‘a Jew’, even though Jewish people do so?

Well GSM, black people refer to each other using the "N" word which I think is horrible, an awful word, there's no way a white person should use that word even if they do. Equally, maybe Jewish people refer to each as "The Jew" I suppose that is their prerogative. . Both these demographics have suffered racism and persecution. We all know their histories, or should do, and I think we have to bear that in mind in how we couch language given the pejorative way nouns have been used towards them.

Germanshepherdsmum Mon 22-Apr-24 18:19:30

I had no idea that black people use the N word to one another. You have opened my eyes there.

I think it is very easy for people who are under pressure or haven’t been coached in the niceties of the English language to say ‘openly Jewish’ or ‘the Jew’. The latter is a statement of fact and I doubt it was said in a pejorative manner - but someone’s precious, pearl-clutching mindset was offended and they reported it. Shame on them.

Paperbackwriter Mon 22-Apr-24 18:25:38

Anniebach

Ramadan celebrated in London with lights , at Easter

I think you'll find that was Eid, the festival at the end of Ramadan. Also, what is your point? Should it NOT be celebrated?

Wyllow3 Mon 22-Apr-24 18:40:12

I have found details of the transcript (not the whole 30 mins, but much more detail) of the contested video) thought it might be helpful

www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2024/apr/22/met-officer-antisemitism-campaigner-gideon-falter-longer-video-sky-news

Germanshepherdsmum Mon 22-Apr-24 18:44:20

That is edited. The Sky video and accompanying transcript are far more reliable, and unbiased.

AGAA4 Mon 22-Apr-24 18:47:41

I think people can take words out of context and find them offensive when the intention to insult wasn't there. I have heard a black woman calling her DH a silly old nigger while giving him a hug.
Was openly Jewish meant to insult? I don't believe so.
People take offence far too easily these days which makes light of the truly horrible racist, antisemitic words that are spoken.

Wyllow3 Mon 22-Apr-24 19:01:48

I'd like to read the full transcript, but I already have taken away a different - fuller - picture than the one Falter released.

Anniebach Mon 22-Apr-24 19:03:27

Openly Jewish is offensive,

Wyllow3 Mon 22-Apr-24 19:32:41

We've all agreed on that. However a great deal more is going on.
"I can do whatever the hell I want. If I want to walk to that pavement [pointing across the road], that’s what I’m going to do, and you’re going to have to arrest me. [Falter then attempts to breach a police cordon.]"

Silvergirl Mon 22-Apr-24 19:38:23

Baiting the police comes across as offensive to. The police officer did an excellent job under difficult circumstances.

AGAA4 Mon 22-Apr-24 19:40:18

The BBC footage shows him barging into the policeman to get through.

Silvergirl Mon 22-Apr-24 19:40:21

Channel 4 news have footage of Falter doing this on various occasions with other officers. It does appear very staged.

Germanshepherdsmum Mon 22-Apr-24 19:41:35

Message deleted by Gransnet. Here's a link to our Talk guidelines.

Germanshepherdsmum Mon 22-Apr-24 19:43:25

AGAA4

The BBC footage shows him barging into the policeman to get through.

A policeman speaking on Sky News said he considered that to be an assault on the police officer.

AGAA4 Mon 22-Apr-24 19:43:54

A black former Chief Superintendent said on BBC news this morning "I would have arrested him for assault".
He barged into the policeman twice.

Anniebach Mon 22-Apr-24 19:47:35

A black former chief superintendent, he was black?

AGAA4 Mon 22-Apr-24 19:51:29

Anniebach

A black former chief superintendent, he was black?

Yes. I mentioned he was black as he was working on the Stephen Lawrence case and is involved in ethnicity.

Germanshepherdsmum Mon 22-Apr-24 20:11:31

Do you have a problem with such a high ranking officer being black Annie? His ethnicity is relevant in this context.

Anniebach Mon 22-Apr-24 20:11:56

I heard him but was so upset for Doreen Lawrence let down yet
again

Anniebach Mon 22-Apr-24 20:14:06

GSM his ethnicity should be irrelevant it’s 2024

Germanshepherdsmum Mon 22-Apr-24 20:14:20

The two issues are entirely separate.

Itsactuallyhappening Mon 22-Apr-24 20:16:32

Message deleted by Gransnet for breaking our forum guidelines. Replies may also be deleted.

Skye17 Mon 22-Apr-24 22:27:42

Iam64

GG and Callistemon - I agree with your posts

Me too!

Skye17 Mon 22-Apr-24 22:34:14

GSM

Feeling intimidated by these marches is not exclusive to the Jewish community.

I don’t live near London and haven’t been there since 7 October. But if I did want to go, I’m sure I’d feel more anxious about it if I was Jewish than I do as a non-Jewish person imagining going. Especially as apparently the route of the march changes every week, making it harder to avoid.