To think that London, or anywhere else for that matter, does not belong to any one demographic

Quote Germanshepherdsmum Fri 19-Apr-24 19:26:10
Doesn’t it occur to anyone that the Jewish man was there, with the person who recorded the exchange with the policeman, to deliberately be provocative? Especially as he is the ceo of an anti-semitism organisation? Being Jewish doesn’t make him the innocent good guy in this.

Wearing a kippah is provocative

In terms of our democratic history of social change the right to protest has always played a role - thank you suffragettes etc etc.

He is a leader for the Campaign Against Anti Semetism, agitator or not, it kind of proves the point, that if wearing anything that symbolises his religion is an arrestable offence, then that body is very much needed. So what if he was trying to provoke a reaction, Those who are so offended by a visibly Jewish man out and about need to look to their own prejudices, get over them and stop conflating anyone they perceive to be Jewish with Israel's Government.

Try issuing that directive to other religious denominations "don't go around in clothes that denote your religion /ethnicity" because you might inflame and annoy other citizens and if that's the case, we'll then have to arrest you", see how that goes down! kind of smacks of Police state I'd say. We are still a free democratic country, although it seems to be becoming far less egalitarian in the selective way we are treating some demographics these days..

I absolutely agree AGA. Frankly, the marches are pointless - they may make the marchers feel good but they will achieve nothing. A huge waste of police time.

If you stop the marches you are denying huge numbers who wish to peacefully protest including Jewish people who are demonstrating against the current regime - including peace groups like the Quakers.

I believe the man was there to provoke a reaction. The policeman was doing his job in keeping the peace.
This seems to be another excuse to bring the police into disrepute.
They are there for all the Pro Palestine marches and it's not an easy job making sure people are kept safe.

Doesn’t it occur to anyone that the Jewish man was there, with the person who recorded the exchange with the policeman, to deliberately be provocative? Especially as he is the ceo of an anti-semitism organisation? Being Jewish doesn’t make him the innocent good guy in this.

Couldn’t be stopped, it would cause violent demonstrations

As things stand atm Skye I don't think the marches should be stopped.

Provoke the marchers by wearing a kippah , describing the man as‘openly Jewish’ was acceptable , antisemitism is evil

Anniebach

It has been said here ‘the man has an agenda’ , they are saying
the man doesn’t wear a kippah any other time

I said he had an agenda and I stand by that. I have not said that he doesn’t wear a kippah at any other time. Who has said that? I believe he was there to provoke the marchers - he is the ceo of an anti-semitism organisation and as I have already said, someone was so conveniently there to film and post the exchange with the policeman, who was trying to prevent trouble. A set-up.

Thank you Wyllow3.

I am very keen on the liberal freedoms, including the right to freedom of assembly. However, I don’t think there is a right to violent and threatening protest. If the march organisers cannot ensure that Jewish people feel safe to come into London on the day of a march - i e that the marchers will remain non-violent - then I think the marches should be stopped.

Surely the right of citizens to be safe in their own capital, with no no-go areas, is more important than the right to protest with threats and violence.

Well said TerriBull.

Including I believe that protest organisers should be responsible. But you cant control absolutely everybody.

I can think of marches I've been on where I was disgusted by a wrecking minority.

The policeman didn't handle it well at all, but I am genuinely racking my brain to suggest what they should have done. Their job is to prevent harm and imo prevent hate incidents.

What do posters suggest?

*Absolutely genuine question

Clear a path to let him cross? Let him cross and then be blamed if anything happens?*

Thank you btw Skye for the up to date figures.

It has been said here ‘the man has an agenda’ , they are saying
the man doesn’t wear a kippah any other time

No problem Cossy.
I thought you didn’t know what Orthodox Jewish clothing was, but you do.
You obviously didn’t know that the man was wearing a kippah as the only sign he was Jewish.

Every citizen of the UK should have the freedom to move about the country as they wish to. This policeman was out of order.

I’m a Londoner, but, as with everywhere, it’s a case of ‘live and let live’.

I couldn’t care less what people are and how they dress.🤷‍♀️

TerriBull

This thread is not about supporting or not supporting the Palestinians, I don't support the Israeli stance in many respects and think they have a horror of a leader in Netanyahu. This thread is about the freedom of the individual to go about their lives dressed in clothing that may denote their religion without them being told that is provocative and could lead to their arrest. This is not about any one particular march, or whether or not Jewish people march in solidarity as we know some do. Neither is to say that marches that support Palestinians should not happen, we live in a democracy, but that democratic right should mean that those on the marches do not become so inflamed that they direct that aggression towards random Jewish people because they conflate them as representatives of the Israeli government. What is it that you don't understand about that?

Well said TerriBull.

paddyann54

I dont believe it,I march regularly in pro Palestinian marches we have a large number of the Jewish community who march WITH US.There has never been trouble at any march and the police have never felt they had to protect anyone from us .

The vast majority of marchers are there to OPPOSE the Israeli government not jews,the Jewish community who march with us would say the same.They do not support the Israeli government,nor its stance on Palestine /Palestinians .I do wish some on here could inderstand supporting the Palestinian people is not anti semitic

Believe it or not, there are various links supporting the incident, Freya's 5th post from the beginning is the first. I expect you'll be telling us next "Look what's happening down in London, their pro Palestinian marchers are nastier than ours up here in Scotland because they're all shouty and anyway we never have any trouble with ours"

This thread is not about supporting or not supporting the Palestinians, I don't support the Israeli stance in many respects and think they have a horror of a leader in Netanyahu. This thread is about the freedom of the individual to go about their lives dressed in clothing that may denote their religion without them being told that is provocative and could lead to their arrest. This is not about any one particular march, or whether or not Jewish people march in solidarity as we know some do. Neither is to say that marches that support Palestinians should not happen, we live in a democracy, but that democratic right should mean that those on the marches do not become so inflamed that they direct that aggression towards random Jewish people because they conflate them as representatives of the Israeli government. What is it that you don't understand about that?

I dont believe it,I march regularly in pro Palestinian marches we have a large number of the Jewish community who march WITH US.There has never been trouble at any march and the police have never felt they had to protect anyone from us .

The vast majority of marchers are there to OPPOSE the Israeli government not jews,the Jewish community who march with us would say the same.They do not support the Israeli government,nor its stance on Palestine /Palestinians .I do wish some on here could inderstand supporting the Palestinian people is not anti semitic

The former TerriBull

TerriBull

So an acceptable Jewish person is only one who visibly demonstrates along with the marchers, they're ok presumably. If however, they are neutral even, but have the damn cheek to wear some notably Jewish clothing/head wear, to go about their business they should either be far more discreet or get the hell off the streets, because the streets don't belong to them.

Or could it be that maybe there's no place for hotheads on these marches and those that organise them should implement some marshalling of their contingent to ensure that they don't step out of line, rather than the very over stretched police?

I don’t believe any of us on believe that any Jew shouldn’t be able to legitimately go about their business whether there are demonstrations or not.

maddyone

Cossy
Have you seen the footage? I have, and the Jewish man was not dressed in orthodox clothing. He was wearing a kippah, and otherwise dressed in normal, western clothing.
Do you know what Jewish orthodox clothing is?

Even if he were wearing orthodox clothing, people on the marches wear Arab scarves, headscarves (women) and other items of dress than identify them as Muslims. Is this a problem too?

No, I have not seen the footage, only read a piece about and this is the impression I was given.

Yes, I know what Jewish Orthodox dress looks like as we have quite a lot in the part of Essex in which I live.

Stand corrected.

So an acceptable Jewish person is only one who visibly demonstrates along with the marchers, they're ok presumably. If however, they are neutral even, but have the damn cheek to wear some notably Jewish clothing/head wear, to go about their business they should either be far more discreet or get the hell off the streets, because the streets don't belong to them.

Or could it be that maybe there's no place for hotheads on these marches and those that organise them should implement some marshalling of their contingent to ensure that they don't step out of line, rather than the very over stretched police?

Expected response