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AIBU

To think that London, or anywhere else for that matter, does not belong to any one demographic

(829 Posts)
TerriBull Fri 19-Apr-24 10:46:31

An openly Jewish man wearing a skull cap was trying to cross the road where a pro Palestine march was taking place. He was stopped by a Met Officer who threatened to arrest the man for breaching the peace because of his openly Jewish appearance. He was merely trying to cross the road. Yes tensions run high amongst these demonstrations, but this person is a citizen going about their daily life. Why should the onus be on him to disappear, surely that onus should be on the demonstrators not to target individuals to take out any grievances. Possibly the Officer was trying to head off any clashes, but I think there is something worryingly wrong and discriminatory in telling a demographic, any demographic, they are not free to move about on the streets of their own country.

Your thoughts on the matter.

AGAA4 Sat 20-Apr-24 09:45:57

The police know that there are counter-protesters walking alongside the march. It's obvious that this could erupt into violence. Not every Israeli
or Jewish person is on the side of the Palestinians.
The police like all of us are human and this policeman could have chosen his words better but if he believed the Jewish man was a counter protester then he was right to stop him possibly inflaming a situation that could have erupted into violence. Nobody wants to see people being hurt.

Anniebach Sat 20-Apr-24 09:56:34

What made the police officer think the man was a counter-
protester ?

AGAA4 Sat 20-Apr-24 10:19:08

None of us were there so we don't know what the man was doing/saying before the policeman spoke to him. We don't know his reasons for being there.
The policeman must have felt that he was trying to be intimidating to the peaceful marchers. The police are trained to watch out for possible trouble makers to keep everyone safe. Protest marches always attract those who want to disrupt them.

maddyone Sat 20-Apr-24 10:27:38

The exchange was filmed. We know what was said. The police have apologised so they know they were wrong. It’s not a good look for the police, but they haven’t covered themselves in glory right from the beginning of this situation. Several other similar instances have occurred.
The words of the policeman show he was antisemitic in his attitude. A Jewish man appearing at a march supporting Gaza should not be a provocation to anyone. If it is, then the problem is with those who find his presence a provocation and then act on it. The problem is not and can never be a person wearing a kippah.

Anniebach Sat 20-Apr-24 10:36:51

The police officer told the man - ‘you are openly Jewish’ , this was protecting him ?

Callistemon21 Sat 20-Apr-24 10:39:08

AGAA4

None of us were there so we don't know what the man was doing/saying before the policeman spoke to him. We don't know his reasons for being there.
The policeman must have felt that he was trying to be intimidating to the peaceful marchers. The police are trained to watch out for possible trouble makers to keep everyone safe. Protest marches always attract those who want to disrupt them.

You're right, none of us were there.

So you are hypothesising.
There is no must, only may.

Callistemon21 Sat 20-Apr-24 10:41:46

maddyone

The exchange was filmed. We know what was said. The police have apologised so they know they were wrong. It’s not a good look for the police, but they haven’t covered themselves in glory right from the beginning of this situation. Several other similar instances have occurred.
The words of the policeman show he was antisemitic in his attitude. A Jewish man appearing at a march supporting Gaza should not be a provocation to anyone. If it is, then the problem is with those who find his presence a provocation and then act on it. The problem is not and can never be a person wearing a kippah.

If, as some posters on GN claim, Jewish people (strangely enough, they are always their "friends"!) are marching with the protestors, then why was it assumed this man was not about to join in the march?

Callistemon21 Sat 20-Apr-24 10:44:25

Germanshepherdsmum

Only in your fevered imagination Annie. He was a Jew in potentially a dangerous place for a Jew to be at that moment. Blame the marchers - who knows who is among their number who may have harmed him? Surely a policeman wanting to protect a Jew from harm is the very opposite of antisemitism?

So arrest him for his own protection in case the protestors turned violent and harmed him??
Is that how policing works now in this country?

Anniebach Sat 20-Apr-24 10:51:47

True Callistemon some here have friends who are Jews who
join the marches, I assume not ‘openly Jewish ‘ , the police would think them provocative

AGAA4 Sat 20-Apr-24 10:59:01

Callistemon and aren't you hypothesising when you called the actions of the police antisemitism.

Anniebach Sat 20-Apr-24 11:07:31

What do consider ‘openly Jewish’ to be if not antisemitism?

Callistemon21 Sat 20-Apr-24 11:15:11

AGAA4

Callistemon and aren't you hypothesising when you called the actions of the police antisemitism.

You have deliberately twisted what I said.

I said the actions of that one police officer were anti-semitic. Not the police in general.

And when the person who looks openly Jewish is the one threatened with arrest by the Metropolitan Police that police force is showing how partisan it is, not to mention that officer being anti-semitic.

As the Police force has now apologised- twice - then they know the actions of that police officer were wrong.

I am not hypothesising, his words were anti-semitic and victim-blaming.

maddyone Sat 20-Apr-24 11:20:13

his words were antisemitic and victim blaming

Yes they were.

Callistemon21 Sat 20-Apr-24 11:21:58

Presumably he's now been sent for re-training!

AGAA4 Sat 20-Apr-24 11:23:20

I think the policeman thought that the man was being provocative and could have used better words even if they were true. It was obvious he was Jewish. Do you think there is something wrong with being called Jewish when you are obviously proud of your religion?
Antisemitism seems to have taken the place if racism as the in word.

MissAdventure Sat 20-Apr-24 11:25:07

People are free to be openly whatever they want, as long as it's legal.

It's the ones who think otherwise who should be dealt with

Anniebach Sat 20-Apr-24 11:30:12

MissAdventure 👏👏👏👏

tickingbird Sat 20-Apr-24 11:34:00

AGAA4

Antisemitism seems to have taken the place if racism as the in word.

Words fail me!

Callistemon21 Sat 20-Apr-24 11:38:24

tickingbird

AGAA4

Antisemitism seems to have taken the place if racism as the in word.

Words fail me!

Words don't fail me but I'd better not post them on here!

maddyone Sat 20-Apr-24 11:41:17

tickingbird

AGAA4

Antisemitism seems to have taken the place if racism as the in word.

Words fail me!

And me!

AGAA4 Sat 20-Apr-24 11:41:21

Nor me Callistemon!

Callistemon21 Sat 20-Apr-24 11:43:37

It is just as well the police have issued two apologies because, if someone is threatened with arrest because they are out in London with outward signs of their religion and/or ethnicity because it may provoke another person, then we need to ban all signs and symbols of any religion or ethnic origin.

It's like saying a woman asked to be assaulted or raped because of what she was wearing.

TerriBull Sat 20-Apr-24 11:44:16

"Abtisemitism seems to have taken the place of racism" Rather glib, given the history of anti semitism and how it's never gone away. How much imagination does it take to put ourselves in the shoes of people who may have had their entire extended family wiped out by a bunch of fascists who thought they alone should dictate who has the right to inhabit a place on this earth, possibly that would focus the mind somewhat when being told one's presence was a provocation.

AGAA4 Sat 20-Apr-24 11:50:09

You are taking it out of context. People aren't arrested for what they wear. The policeman was obviously concerned that there could be an incident. I agree he went about it the wrong way but would you have preferred there to be a possible riot where innocent people were hurt.

eazybee Sat 20-Apr-24 11:55:28

Why should there be a riot because a Jewish man was present on a public thoroughfare and wished to cross the road?