Teachers toilet training

keepingquiet

There are lots of factors involved I think.

As some have mentioned the quality of disposable nappies has improved so much that toddlers can stay in a wet one all day with no issues.

Parents are much busier these days despite what some say- if both parents are working full-time and the child has been in nursery since infancy then where is the time? Nursery staff are too shorthanded to be chasing children around with potties every five minutes.

It has always be the case that some children wet themselves in class. This happened to me when I was teaching in a secondary school- we had some children who regularly left a puddle on a seat. I once found faeces on the school stage when teaching a drama class!

Teachers are not paid to toilet train, if it is an issue in reception class then it would be the TA who would deal with it, and if I were asked to as a teacher I would be onto my head or the union straight away!

Much can be made of this issue but most children starting school will make that transition quickly.

Finally, dismissing Covid as a factor does not act for the welfare of so many children affected, ignored and now being dismissed as having to take the brunt of the lockdown measures whilst being the least affected by the virus.

How the government failed to support young families at this time, including my own grandchildren is nothing short of shameful, and we will be dealing with the consequences of this for some time to come.

What responsible parent leaves a child in a wet nappy all day,would they stay in wet knickers all day, no of course not, why would you leave a little one open to bacteria infectious,nappy rash, UTI, urine is only sterile until it leaves the body, no responsible parent would do this. All my family have worked full time, non of mine or my grandchildren went to primary not toilet trained.
As for lockdown, parents were paid to work from home, does this excuse lack of toilet training, didn't the parents need to go to the toilet. Children are primarily parents responsibility, not the government. Of course children have accidents, children do, but to send a child to primary school,not toilet trained,is neglect on the part of irresponsible parents.

Who says it takes a week? Not every child is the same.

I dont get this parents are too busy excuse, before starting school the child was being cared for by somebody, either nursery , carers or parents all of which can toilet train, it takes about a week.

Lockdown has no bearing on it now as children could be trained during that time, in fact easier as many were at home.

What has happened to this generation of parents where nothing is their responsibility, they can’t brush teeth, toilet train, cook or discipline their children, maybe if they spent less time on their phones they would have time to parent.

The prime responsibilities for. supporting young families lies, as it has always done, with the parents, not the government.

We are truly facilitating a 'nanny' state, but traditional nannies did not and do not encourage their charges in dependence and idleness.

It was a tedious process, we got there around 2 and 3/4. When mine went into the school nursery, which was the term after their 3rd birthday, we the parents, all knew that it was a given that they had to be out of nappies, accidents happened, the nursery staff were used to that but a child in nappies would not have been accepted. I don't know what's happened between then the 1990s and now, although I accept it's a fact that there are definitely more full time working mothers, but even taking that into account, although I wasn't working pre school, there were certainly quite a few mothers who were. I think teachers have enough to do without having to toilet train children as well, they trained to be teachers not nannies.

I think it has become apparent the ramifications of lockdown has been damaging to the socialisation and development of children, however, I would have thought that possibly more time would have become available for toilet training if parents were amongst those who were furloughed for example.

Casting my mind back to when I was growing up, there wasn't any support from the government as to help with raising children, as far as I can recall families were on their own and had to get on with it.

There are lots of factors involved I think.

As some have mentioned the quality of disposable nappies has improved so much that toddlers can stay in a wet one all day with no issues.

Parents are much busier these days despite what some say- if both parents are working full-time and the child has been in nursery since infancy then where is the time? Nursery staff are too shorthanded to be chasing children around with potties every five minutes.

It has always be the case that some children wet themselves in class. This happened to me when I was teaching in a secondary school- we had some children who regularly left a puddle on a seat. I once found faeces on the school stage when teaching a drama class!

Teachers are not paid to toilet train, if it is an issue in reception class then it would be the TA who would deal with it, and if I were asked to as a teacher I would be onto my head or the union straight away!

Much can be made of this issue but most children starting school will make that transition quickly.

Finally, dismissing Covid as a factor does not act for the welfare of so many children affected, ignored and now being dismissed as having to take the brunt of the lockdown measures whilst being the least affected by the virus.

How the government failed to support young families at this time, including my own grandchildren is nothing short of shameful, and we will be dealing with the consequences of this for some time to come.

I am disgusted to read of children arriving at school without having been toilet trained. Several children arrived at school without having received any form oftoilet training before I retired in 2011, so nothing to do with covid and everything to do with lazy, parents. At one time schools could refuse to accept children if they still needed nappies; this was then over-ruled and immediately the numbers increased. These children did not/do not have special needs or medical conditions, simply parents who do not care and rely on school to sort it out. This also happens with children with speech and hearing problems, identified early and support and practical ideas given but totally ignored by parents; school will do it.

I do think that it is not the most effective use of teacher and TA time to potty train children. We were a school with a strong tradition of welcoming children with disabilities, and were happy that their needs might include intimate care, but it's difficult to justify the cost in time for most children.
Some parents ( despite my world beating prospective parent talk!) assume that you have just one child ( theirs) to care for, so doing up their coat/ helping them with buttons/ wiping their bottom etc would take " just a minute".
And don't get me started on children looking at their plate of school lunch waiting patiently for me to feed them.

Greta

It's difficult to know what is going on here and see a clear link to lockdown. Did children arrive in nappies before the pandemic?

Why blame lock down for inadequate parenting. Surely there was more time at home to help train the children, there is always an excuse nowadays, every else is to blame , not me. Children start to be potty trained around aged two. Well before they start primary school, some children may have bladder problems, but few and far between. None of mine went to school wearing nappies, this is a new lazy parent thing.

I am/was a NNEB nursery nurse. I worked with a reception teacher back in the 90s. We had a class of 30 children aged 4 & 5 year old
During the home visits in the weeks before school started in the September a few mummies mentioned their little ones weren't completely toilet trained. The teacher politely but firmly explained that if the 2 of us were to spend so much of the school day toileting 4/5 year olds there wouldn't be a lot of time left for teaching.
My own daughter was about 8 at the time and was/is autistic/dysprastic, so I made sure she wore clothing that made it easier for her to remove quickly, always left spare pants and wipes in her bag.
I agree with others that newer nappies make it easier these days
When I was a childminder I often "potty trained" 3 year olds only to find parents put them back in nappies

We have had 2 this year, it's not once an hour and it is not 25 children?

That's a bit far fetched

When my children were little, cloth nappies were the norm and the amount of work involved encourage us to get them out of them as soon as possible! Modern nappies are so easy, but expensive, so less urgency about potty training. More worried about the carpets!

Greta I don’t think it’s anything to do with lockdown it’s been happening for a good few years Anyway lockdown would have been the perfect time to be doing it 🙃lockdown can’t be blamed for everything

I don’t think you are wrong at all Travelfar Pull-ups can be a real boon for disabled or neuro diverse children but they are too easy an alternative for busy families it’s so much easier than doing toilet training which sometimes takes time and effort
When our generation brought up our babies in terry towelling nappies we were happy to train the babies early and get them into pretty knicks and pants and how proud our little ones were to show off their big boy or girl panties
I see children of 3, walking around in dirty nappies hanging down their legs
Children should not be allowed into school if they are not toilet trained (unless obviously disabled or have medical problems)
Its not doing the kids any good at all

It's difficult to know what is going on here and see a clear link to lockdown. Did children arrive in nappies before the pandemic?

Well said, Elegran.

Too many excuses used for issues like this.

Unless there are other factors involved, the vast majority of children should be toilet trained by the time they are in primary school.

Wheniwasyourage

There’s a difference between children who need a bit of help with the odd accident and children coming to school in nappies though, VioletSky!

If parents think they can expect teachers to manage their child's nappy-changing, the number of untrained children who are at school (not nursery) is likely to increase.

How many times an hour would you leave a class of 6-year-olds to their own devices while you escorted one of them to the loo to change a nappy, VioletSky? If there are 25 in the class, and none of them are out of nappies, that could be 15 times in an hour, taking 2 or 3 minutes each time. That adds up to at least half your "teaching time". If, as Alypoole says, two people are required to change one nappy, that doubles the teaching time wasted.

You have said before now that you work with young children - but I don't think you are alone in a classroom with children who you are supposed to be teaching all the basic foundation skills on which they will build their future education. If you are in a pre-school you will have other adults in the room, and the absence of one of them doesn't have as much impact.

Teachers are not nursery nurses. They are there to TEACH. An occasional accident is one thing, repeated nappy care is another.

I think it’s worth listening to violet sky seeing as she has first hand experience! I remember being in school myself and kids having to leave class as they’d wet themselves. That part is nothing new. I can’t say I think children without bladder control using a pull up pad aid is bad either wrt dignity or don’t we care about childrens dignity?

I may be wrong but could it be because disposable nappies are so easy for parents. Back in the day there was an incentive to get children potty trained. Dealing with fabric nappies was difficult, the washing and drying, nappy rashes, and the bulkyness of them meant we couldn't wait to get be rid of them. Now nappies are used once and got rid of, there are also pull ups which are hardly noticeable on a child. Just a thought. 🤔

I am afraid we will look back on the impact of lockdowns on our children particularly the most vulnerable as a terrible mistake.
I work in many schools in early years, and have done for about 14 years. The landscape within early years has changed beyond recognition in that time. This is for a range of factors, it is vanishingly rare, certainly in my local authority, for children with additional needs, to be allocated a specialist place for example. There are numerous issues.

There’s a difference between children who need a bit of help with the odd accident and children coming to school in nappies though, VioletSky!

A lot of additional needs have been missed due to COVID and it would actually be very hard to know that for certain about children just starting school. Some additional needs don't get picked up until after children enter reception class or much later because the age range of the children is an entire year, and that is a huge range during many key stages of development where children are not moving at the same pace.

It's also not unusual for any child not to have bladder control when starting school. Doctors would only really be concerned about lack of bladder control after age 7.

Reception class is not mainstream school either and previously those children would still have been in nursery.

I don't personally have any issue supporting children to use the toilet properly. It's not ideal by any means and it is placing a small amount of pressure on schools but I'd be shocked if any decent teacher would walk away from a job due to that. A great deal of time and work goes into managing a whole class and there is far more to manage than toileting. Every child is different and needs support in different ways, whether that is with their education, socially, emotionally or because they need help to toilet.

We are with the children 7 hours a day. If they could be dry easily we would achieve that in a small space of time. Especially as children that age tend to want to be for themselves

It is concerning when as you say Truffle, children not toilet trained and/or being able to adequately communicate their needs isn't due to a language barrier or a disability.

Children have a right to an education so it's tricky

Children quite often have accidents too so that's something we are used to

I've only known children come in not potty trained due to having additional needs. The same with language usually.

The problem there is that there aren't enough spaces in schools designed to accommodate additional needs. And even children who do have extra funding, it usually isn't enough to cover a 1:1 member of staff.

I think that what needs looking into is really adequately funding that extra support families need

And it takes 2 members of staff to make these nappy changes! What has happened to parenting?