Teachers toilet training

IMO it’s the general availability of disposable nappies and pull-ups that’s to blame. A friend of a dd was still saying that her son (no special needs) still ‘wasn’t ready’ for potty training at well over 3. And there are evidently many the same.

It was unheard of back when women had to wash and dry terry nappies, often without an automatic washing machine, let alone a dryer.
Sheer laziness/CBA-ness.

You are quite right in my opinion. I had three boys in less than four years the were toilet trained by two and half years of age back in the late 1960s/early 70s.

I spent five years at university and came out with a shining degree to teach in schools not to potty train. At one of our lectures by a prestigious professor at a prestigious university he gave the example of a case study where a school beginner's mother had to come in to change the child's nappy at break and lunch or else the child would not have been able to attend. That was almost 50 years ago.

WellsRose I think you’re talking very knowledgeably here and I agree with what you say.

Every time I see the caption'Teachers toilet training' float by I think it refers to the training of teachers
Made me smile too

There are different challenges we all face

Well said

Calendargirl

WellsRose

I commented on my financial history because you said most modern mothers work really hard for their kids.

I assumed from that, perhaps wrongly, that you meant modern mothers were out at work. SAHM also worked hard for their children, albeit in a different way.

And incidentally, I have never smoked in my life. Not all mums 50 years ago had fags hanging out of the corners of their mouth.

As regards potty training, potty learning, whatever you want to call it, we shall agree to differ.

🚽

I meant that most modern parents work really hard for their children after some of the accusations of laziness on this thread.

So you didn't smoke and you don't like being stereotyped with a lot of the parents of your generation then maybe challenge the stereotypes of modern parents.

I don't think any generation is better than the other. There are different challenges we all face.

I've got plenty of life experience at 55 so what do I not understand?

We were both working when our two children were infants and throughout to sixth form. I remember buying a potty for our 2 year old when we were on holiday in Ireland, she’d suddenly announced ‘need a wee wee’. Potty 50pence, she sat on it outside the shop and succeeded, we applauded as did several very friendly people on the high street in a tiny village. No more nappies during the day. No wet pants by the time we went home after a very happy two weeks.
There is so much judgement on this forum towards working mothers - yes it’s usually mothers who are blamed. On another thread today, accused of ‘wanting it all’

I am so saddened to read this, parents are under so much pressure. I think I was lucky, 3 adopted children who have Down Syndrome all were dry when they were just 3 years old. Birth children dry around 2nd birthday. I think today’s parents are both working so there is no continuity.

Every time I see the caption'Teachers toilet training' float by I think it refers to the training of teachers; whether early toilet training has anything to do with it you certainly needed a strong bladder. In my last school, built mid 1990s there were two female toilets and one for male for staff, plus one unisex for disabled pupils; when I retired there was a maximum of 45 staff ( at least 25 female on site at any time) and maximum of 5 men. As you were supposed never to leave the class unattended there were always queues during the 15 minute breaks and at the beginning of lunch time.

I think parents now are not so tied into the idea that a line full of snowy white nappies, or a child trained at a young age are a feather in their cap.

I do wonder what's happened to children's bladders, since they can mow be up about age seven and not dry, when most of ours were "done" in time for a playschool place.

Blimey, lots of judgment on both sides of the debate. I was a very neglectful mother back in the 80’s/90’s. Used terry nappies even with my third child when I was definitely in the minority, and got some funny looks at mum and toddler groups but really didn’t care.

I have to admit I waited until I thought each of my children was ready to give up nappies, and they varied wildly. The notion of ‘training’ never entered my head. They all got there without a teacher being involved, and I didn’t ask anyone else to wash their nappies either. If I ever had the care of a baby or toddler again I would do exactly the same, and leave others to do what they choose.

WellsRose

I commented on my financial history because you said most modern mothers work really hard for their kids.

I assumed from that, perhaps wrongly, that you meant modern mothers were out at work. SAHM also worked hard for their children, albeit in a different way.

And incidentally, I have never smoked in my life. Not all mums 50 years ago had fags hanging out of the corners of their mouth.

As regards potty training, potty learning, whatever you want to call it, we shall agree to differ.

🚽

My opinion based on practical experience of the issue under discussion.

It’s for commercial gain that Unilever and others suggest it must be the children to decide when they start and it is cruel to start early, as it will upset their body motions later in life. It is this in mind and the idea that parents want to be friends with their children and not want to contradict them.
My eldest, now 51, was clean at a year and nights 18 months as were her two sisters. Cloth nappies and neither washing machine nor spin drier to hand might have had something to do with it.
My daughters cheekily gave me their DC to train also… as if I could be the evil one to do the deed.

What makes you conclude WellsRose doesn’t understand a lot if things? Is that a personal dig?

MOnica, once again, gets it right. Modern nappies mean children don’t feel uncomfortable, or leak. I also remember the 2 year health visitor assessment being a point at which good advice on potty training successfully in 2 weeks was given. Certainly worked for us. Plus no more boiling nappies

WellsRose

I'm sorry I don't understand why your financial history is relevant to this converation?
Lots of people live in modest houses and don't on holidays even with the woman working.
You're husband was happy to work long hours and not see much of his kids. Not all men feel like that. Some women love their job. Some people want holidays and I'm sure most kids do x

I agree with you, except in extreme circumstances, whether a child is potty trained at 4 when they start school is quite independent of any aspects of their home life.

I think the problem is that modern disposable nappies have made dealing with an incontinent child no more complex than changing a pair of pants. They wick the fluid away so well and keep it without leaking. If today's parents were dealing with towelling nappies, nappy liners and plastic pants, or early disposables that had the consistency and non-leak qulities of a bath sponge, I think they would be a lot keener on potty training.

There are a lot of things you don't understand, WellsRose.

I'm sorry I don't understand why your financial history is relevant to this converation?
Lots of people live in modest houses and don't on holidays even with the woman working.
You're husband was happy to work long hours and not see much of his kids. Not all men feel like that. Some women love their job. Some people want holidays and I'm sure most kids do x

Yes, I potty trained as early as possible ‘for my own convenience’ as you say WellsRose, but also because back then, children were not allowed to start nursery unless out of nappies. Occasional accidents happened, of course, just like at home. Plus one little boy was still in nappies, also had to be bathed every morning by the staff as he came from a very deprived background. Obvious exceptions were made.

I was a stay-at-home mum until both children were at primary school, when I returned part time to my job.My DH worked long hours including overtime which enabled us to ‘manage’ financially on one wage.

But we didn’t go away on holiday, just had the one car, lived in a very modest house, no takeaway meals, and only had what we could afford to pay for.

My AC are now 50 and 48, so am talking about a good while ago, when life was very different.

Sometimes, you can’t have it all ways though.

Iam64

MOnica - another thanks from me for your post. All this outrage that only modern mothers fail to meet their children’s needs is just silly. There have always been children who are neglected, or whose basic needs are inadequately met.

Very true.

Most modern mothers are working really hard for their kids. Much harder than my parents generation. Also men are much more hands on. I had a lovely dad but he never changed a nappy.
All generations have their problems but I think young parents are generally great.

MOnica - another thanks from me for your post. All this outrage that only modern mothers fail to meet their children’s needs is just silly. There have always been children who are neglected, or whose basic needs are inadequately met.

My MiL was a reception class teacher. She retired in 1976.She taught in a small town in Buckinghamshire. She used to talk about children coming to school who had so little vocbaulary they could barely communicate. In her words, they had been talked at, talked over and talked through but never talked to.

She talked of them being unable to recognise shapes, understand words like under, over, between. They had never held a pencil or seen a book.

This, I would remind you was 1950's-1970s. So this unpreparedness for school is nothing new - and nowadays many children starting school are much younger than they were in the 1950s-70s, when you started school the term after you were 5, not the start of the (school) year you were 5.

She too sometimes had children start school in nappies, but, yes, that is a modern problem. But, as, I have said, children start school at a younger age than they used to.

Calendargirl

^I started teaching my child when she was 2.5 as that is what the guidance is^

Not any more it’s not. Think you’re supposed to be sitting them on the potty when they can sit up, at about 6 months.

As many of us did, back in the ‘good old days’, when we didn’t have guidance, just used our common sense and tried to avoid any more washing of nappies than necessary.

Really. I know elimination communication is practised by some African and Asian communities and there are some people in Western world's that will try it but do you have evidence to support that this now what we are supposed to do.

I hate the words 'common sense' used as a passive aggressive dig. If you were such a clever generation, how did you not think smoking in the house was bad for children, why did I have to become law for seat belts and car seats to be used? The number of cot deaths have gone down due to modern parents following guidelines so there really is no need to sneer.

You potty trained earlier because you had to wash nappies. It was for your own convenience and not because of superior parenting.

We use guidance be